Drop in air filters

[n0useforaname]

Here is my opinion, until someone can show me Dyno and Filtering results on a stock truck, or one that just has an exhaust and programmer set to run the truck under 500HP, then do the tests with aftermarket CAI and without...then I would stick with a stock one. I know I have an aftermarket CAI....but it was free with my exhaust, and my wife thought it would look "Cool". I haven't noticed a difference in EGTs or MPG or Performance. All companies seem to do these "tests" to prove their filters are the best, but if you read carefully, they basically do tests that they KNOW their filters will perform better with. That S&B truth about filters is a pile of crap in my opinion. That guy randomly pops up claiming they test against all filters, but never tested against Banks. And when I ask why? I get NO answer. Don't waste your money unless you want it for looks. And for K&N, I saw a couple websites that did filtering tests with them, and it let too much dirt through...and they weren't done by AFE or any other filter company. They were independent researchers looking for a good filter.

[SpeedRacer88]

Originally Posted by duramaxchris06

well i dont know, i havent oiled it..i bought it as is, brand new from advanced auto parts about 2 months ago...im not trying to argue your knowledge or prove you wrong..im just telling my experience with the K&N.

No worries. I'm actually surprised you got oil off of a brand new filter. I'm sure the sensor wasn't dripping oil but how did you determine there was oil on the sensor? I've had a K&N drop in and then an Intake and haven't had any issues for 34K on my DuraMax.

I use them on all of our race cars but with carbs it isn't a big deal, you wouldn't notice. My knowledge comes from first hand experience, I was there when the testing was happening..... I used to be a Senior Tech at K&N....

K&N got claims of sensors going bad because of oil, it ended up being the potting material used in manufacturing and other various manufacturing issues with the sensors. Not only that but sensors go bad naturally, had an 02' S-10 4.3L with 50K and stock everything, MAF failed on my way home when I bought it. Not one failure tested was because of the oil and that was independent testing.

When the sensors were dipped in the oil and tested they functioned as they were supposed to, it's interesting to me that your mileage went down? How much if you don't mind me asking?

[SpeedRacer88]

Originally Posted by n0useforaname

Here is my opinion, until someone can show me Dyno and Filtering results on a stock truck, or one that just has an exhaust and programmer set to run the truck under 500HP, then do the tests with aftermarket CAI and without...then I would stick with a stock one. I know I have an aftermarket CAI....but it was free with my exhaust, and my wife thought it would look "Cool". I haven't noticed a difference in EGTs or MPG or Performance. All companies seem to do these "tests" to prove their filters are the best, but if you read carefully, they basically do tests that they KNOW their filters will perform better with. That S&B truth about filters is a pile of crap in my opinion. That guy randomly pops up claiming they test against all filters, but never tested against Banks. And when I ask why? I get NO answer. Don't waste your money unless you want it for looks. And for K&N, I saw a couple websites that did filtering tests with them, and it let too much dirt through...and they weren't done by AFE or any other filter company. They were independent researchers looking for a good filter.

All of the aftermarket companies run dyno test with stock and then with the intakes, most have an increase of about 10-20 RWHP. This is real. Independent tuners use intakes because they make more HP. I build race engines and I know they work better. It's really simple; an engine is an air pump, the more efficiently you get air into and then out of an engine the more HP/efficient it will be.

What test are you talking about? They do a dyno pull bone stock and then with the intake, then they show the increase. Did you install the exhaust and intake at the same time? Which intake and exhaust?

Banks? Guess who builds Banks filters. They don't....... Those filtration test you saw have been around for awhile, that's a long story but it's not the truth....... There is a reason K&N is the best and it's not because they don't increase HP or filter well..... How do most of the Baja/Score trucks run through silt and tons of dust and run strong with K&N filters? Sprint cars, NHRA ProStock, NASCAR.... People that race wouldn't use them if they didn't make a difference, why not just use the paper filter? It doesn't have the load capacity nor the flow. That's MHO.

[dieselfan]

Well put!!

[chevelleguy]

If you walk into Pratt and Miller engineering's shop in Detroit, Michigan you will see the entrance full of trophies from the C5R and C6R. They are one of Americans primer race car shops and they choose K&N filters because they work. Period. K&N is the only filter I will run in my cars and trucks.

[Killerbee]

Race cars do not have to last 200,000 miles before overhaul. Using a race filter on a street vehicle, justifying its use based on the success of racers who change oil at 200 mile intervals and tear down every 2000 miles...is ignorant at best.

I will not argue with anyone who defends this strategy, instead I will assume that person either represents an aftermarket company, or is sponsored by one, or changes oil every 3000 miles because his daddy did. The inatke company, like KN, is who specs and designs new intakes is sought out for new builds, naturally, this is not within the scope of this thread. We are talking about stock street vehicles, a big difference.

If you are concerned about longevity issues AT ALL, you will never touch one of these.

Consider that ALL manufacturers, including KN, when assembling complete kits, missed the opportunity to replace a critical intake piece on the 04-05 D-max that has around 20 times the flow resistance of the stock filter. The element stock has 3% of the total intake resistance. Replacing it with a KN, brought that down to 2%. This is based on my personal testing. You be the judge...to me it tells me these manufacturers never even test a stock vehicle for improvement potential. That also means that the ingoing assumption is that you will buy one, whether or not there is an actual improvement to...ANYTHING. Unfortunately they are correct. We are to blame for this thread even being necessary...a foregone conclusion of public gullibility.

My experience is not with the newer intake of these vehicles, but I would not be surprised if the same argument can be used.

[Killerbee]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacer88

All of the aftermarket companies run dyno test with stock and then with the intakes, most have an increase of about 10-20 RWHP. This is real. Independent tuners use intakes because they make more HP. I build race engines and I know they work better. It's really simple; an engine is an air pump, the more efficiently you get air into and then out of an engine the more HP/efficient it will be.

What test are you talking about? They do a dyno pull bone stock and then with the intake, then they show the increase. Did you install the exhaust and intake at the same time? Which intake and exhaust?

Banks? Guess who builds Banks filters. They don't....... Those filtration test you saw have been around for awhile, that's a long story but it's not the truth....... There is a reason K&N is the best and it's not because they don't increase HP or filter well..... How do most of the Baja/Score trucks run through silt and tons of dust and run strong with K&N filters? Sprint cars, NHRA ProStock, NASCAR.... People that race wouldn't use them if they didn't make a difference, why not just use the paper filter? It doesn't have the load capacity nor the flow. That's MHO.

Many of these intakes, from these "reputable" intake companies, are sold to people who believe everything they read.

Assuming I have correctly interpreted this post, it is exactly the kind of material the intake company wants you to claim.


Following applies to the 01-05 vehicles as an example:

Do you also realize that the stock element is more expensive to manufacture than the aftermarket element? 2-3X more, with 900-1000% more filtration area.

It also has something like 5 times the dirt holding capacity. Need I continue?

[n0useforaname]

Killerbee beat me to it, but I'm trying to keep my truck for the LONG HAUL....I could care less about racing and amazing extra HP. I want to see tests that show normal everyday truck, doing normal everyday things and all of them having different intakes in them for 50,000 miles or so. Then after that time is up, tear the filters out and do some tests to see which ones run best. Most filter companies say, great filtering! Extra mileage! More HP! blah blah blah. But noone does extended tests to prove their filter will outlast and filter better than the others. They just throw it in a machine and dump dust in there.

[n0useforaname]

Originally Posted by SpeedRacer88

Did you install the exhaust and intake at the same time? Which intake and exhaust?

Banks? Guess who builds Banks filters. They don't.......

Exhaust came first, then intake was a month later. I was debating on whether I wanted to do it, but the wife said it was free, see if it improves anything. Did NOTHING for my EGTs or Mileage. And I know Banks doesn't make their own filters. I was trying to get at: S&B filters, and Banks look IDENTICAL. And S&B does no tests against Banks. I just found that funny. And not to be rude, but for me, I feel that Advanced Auto, Auto Zone, etc...are jokes. Everything they sell is cheesy, cheap, and the workers around here don't know anything about vehicles. And they are the ONLY places here that sell K&N products. It's like going to Wal-Mart to purchase performance parts. None of the aftermarket dealers and race shops will go near K&N. Plus, when I thought about purchasing one for my Blazer 4 years ago, I called them to ask them about their claims I saw online, and the guy on the phone said they won't guarantee any of that. This is just my personal experiences with all of this.

[SpeedRacer88]

Originally Posted by Killerbee

Race cars do not have to last 200,000 miles before overhaul. Using a race filter on a street vehicle, justifying its use based on the success of racers who change oil at 200 mile intervals and tear down every 2000 miles...is ignorant at best.

I will not argue with anyone who defends this strategy, instead I will assume that person either represents an aftermarket company, or is sponsored by one, or changes oil every 3000 miles because his daddy did. The inatke company, like KN, is who specs and designs new intakes is sought out for new builds, naturally, this is not within the scope of this thread. We are talking about stock street vehicles, a big difference.

If you are concerned about longevity issues AT ALL, you will never touch one of these.

Consider that ALL manufacturers, including KN, when assembling complete kits, missed the opportunity to replace a critical intake piece on the 04-05 D-max that has around 20 times the flow resistance of the stock filter. The element stock has 3% of the total intake resistance. Replacing it with a KN, brought that down to 2%. This is based on my personal testing. You be the judge...to me it tells me these manufacturers never even test a stock vehicle for improvement potential. That also means that the ingoing assumption is that you will buy one, whether or not there is an actual improvement to...ANYTHING. Unfortunately they are correct. We are to blame for this thread even being necessary...a foregone conclusion of public gullibility.

My experience is not with the newer intake of these vehicles, but I would not be surprised if the same argument can be used.

To each his own..... 1000 miles in Baja in RACE conditions is like 50K within the realm of regular street driving. Those engines last entire seasons making 650+ HP in adverse conditions. I'm sponsored by K&N, I don't use cheap products. I've got a $30K engine in my Camaro, not worth the risk if they didn't filter. I'd use paper filters if I thought it would hurt my engine, NOT! Paper is for coffee filtration! Would Pratt and Miller use a K&N filter on the new C6RS ($225K street car) if it would damage there custom $30K+ Katech engine? I don't think so. Why does Dodge/Mopar, GM Performance, TRD, Nissan offer intakes through there performance divisions? Because they hurt the engines? I guess I'm an idiot along with Pratt and Miller...... I'll take that.

A gentleman went 1 million miles on one single K&N replacement filter? 2 small block 350's, that's 500K each.

The original post was regarding drop in filters, the bottom line is they work. You can say what you want but I saw the test first hand and know they work. Keep wasting your money on paper filters........... I'll save money on replacement filters (because I don't have to buy them) and on gas because my mileage increased. Or wait, was that my imagination?

Killerbee, what are your qualifications so far as testing goes? Where do you come up with these percentages? Just curious because they are way off base..... How many engines have you put together and pulled apart? Have you seen an engine blow up because of K&N filters? I haven't. My last big block went 60K making 525RWHP, it lived through racing and street driving. When we pulled it apart it looked brand new inside, used a K&N it's entire life.

From what I can see you're one of those "well GM spends millions of dollars so it must be good" guy's. Yah, they spend millions figuring out how to save millions by cutting cost.