Chevy and GMC Duramax Diesel Forum banner

Welding on frame to repair damage?

23K views 35 replies 14 participants last post by  Broc680 
#1 ·
So my 2013 silverado 2500hd z71 LML truck has been rear ended by a drunk guy doing 50 in a gmc 1500. The reciever hitch took the majority of the blow, causing it to be pushed down pretty far. When this happened, it "tore" the bottom end of my frame where the hitch bolts in at. The body shop I have it at for a repair estimate says that the torn frame can be hammered back and welded up and all should be fine, however my insurance adjuster says that they researched the frame and said that it cannot be safely welded on. Which is kinda how I feel as well. I'm afraid that it will temper/weaken the steel around where the new reciever hitch will bolt on, and I'm worried about towing with it and if it would possibly make future accidents more dangerous.

If anyone has any thoughts on this I would appreciate you sharing.

If I can figure out how to post a picture I will.
Thanks.

The second photo is of one of the spring perches that the reciever cut into, I think they want to weld that up as well.
 

Attachments

See less See more
1
#4 ·
In my opinion i would just have it welded and let it go.

The point where it's torn in the first picture appears to be behind where the hitch mounts to the frame. If there isn't a support bolt for the hitch that goes where the frame is torn then it really wouldn't hurt anything to have it welded up since it's past the main weight carrying point. If the frame was bent or cracked in the main area where the hitch is mounted then it would be a totally different story. If possible the only thing i would do is request the spring perch to be replaced. They should be able to do that as they simply bolt on and is simple enough that it only makes sense.

The biggest thing that needs to happen if it hasn't already is to get it on a frame machine and see how far it's twisted and out of shape in other areas. It could be bent in another area and you wouldn't see it off hand until it went on a frame machine and accurate measurements pulled to see what you're working with.

I'm sure people will come on here and say you need to be handed a new 2015 Denali, etc but in my opinion yours can be safely repaired.
 
#6 · (Edited)
When it first went into this shop they had told me they would have to pull the bed to be able to measure the frame for any misalignment. I find today that they never pulled the frame and just wrote a short list of repairs to give to the insurance adjuster so that they would accept the repairs, and the body shop could start the repairs and be covered for the time and labor involved in removing the bed to get it on the frame machine. He pretty much told me that since my truck only had 16k miles, he knew that they would not total it out, and he wanted to be able to say "while doing that repair we found that we need to also repair/replace this thing as well...". When I told the body shop guy the adjuster had told me she wanted to go ahead and get an estimate from him to do a full frame replacement, he said "I'm not going to do that, we are to busy here for a project that big". Really?

Ok so I called the closest dealership with a body shop, and they told me they would love to have my buisness, and as soon as they had possession of it they would get the bed off and check every critical deminsion of the frame and go to great detail to make sure they find every thing that needs to be included in the estimate before they sent it to the insurance adjuster. So the tow truck is on the way!

The guy at the body shop brought up a point about the "to weld or not to weld" issue, he said that gm sells new spring perches and they are to be welded to the frame instead of bolted/riveted on like I had figured they where.

Thank you for the quick replies. Brokesmoke, when you say you would just have it welded "and let it go". Do you mean to not worry about it, or are you saying that I should get rid of it and get a new one?

After researching, spring perch, I'm pretty sure the body guy is using the wrong terminology. I think he is talking about the shackle hanger bracket?
 
#7 ·
Good choice on changing shops. You have to nice of a truck to let some hacks work on it that don't want to do it right.

The hanger bracket is the correct terminology and are easily replaceable with the bed off- that would be my suggestion to correct the gouge in it is to replace it.

When i was saying have it welded i meant to just have it welded back up and keep it. The integrity of it has been compromised and it will never be 100% again without it being replaced since it has been torn. Now with that being said where it is torn/ bent appears to be past the area of the frame where the hitch and spring hangers are mounted (the areas with the most stress on them) and in my opinion would be fine simply having it re-welded as there isn't any major significant structural importance to it- it simply provides a place for the bumper to be mounted and is not carrying any significant amounts of weight. If, however its an area where one of the bolts for the hitch were ripped out it might be a little different. I would personally still say re-weld it but i would add a piece of rectangular steel in the frame with a hole in it where the nut would have been to allow it to have some additional structural support. This will allow it to put pressure in other areas besides where it was torn to alleviate it from tearing again. The picture below will better describe what I'm talking about:

 
#8 ·
After my journey into welding, I would not have a mechanic simply weld that on. After seeing so many hack jobs at body shops welding frames and hitches I'm horrified at their work. If they do weld it, I would have it inspected properly. (My wife is very critical since she inspects weld).

Post your questionin weldingweb forum. You will get some good feedback
 
#11 ·
Ouch.. looks like he got what he deserved..
 
#15 ·
a good trusted body shop should be able to get you a new frame on a truck that new.
 
#16 ·
Pigpen23 had a front end wreck with his old body LML, and the insurance people said new frame, period.


What became of his frame you ask? The suspension section got sent to me and the rest got scrapped. He ended up getting a new new new body truck just recently

Not sure why they replaced it because everything measures good with it IMO, must have been the very front crossmemeber that possibly got bent

Vehicle Auto part
 
#17 ·
I don't work in frames so I may not be an expert on this exact subject matter but I have to put my 2 cents in as a weld engineer for a tier 1 automotive supplier and having worked heavily with oems on structural components for a former employer. I personally wouldn't worry about welding the frame, to my knowledge GM doesn't use any specialty or ultra high strength steels for their frames in their trucks (although they certainly are looking at it in the future for weight reduction) and I find it very hard to believe they are doing any sort of post processing heat treatment to them. Really the only loss of strength I think you would see would possibly be some annealing taking some strength out of it that was instilled by cold working the steel in the forming processes. However, that being said, expecting a sound weld on that material thickness from a body shop would be a big concern of mine. If insurance is willing to pay for it and you would be more comfortable with a frame replacement then that should probably be the path to go down. I may make some calls to see if I can find out the mechanicals for the material GM is using on their frames and hopefully be able to provide some better insight.

Disclaimer--This is just my opinion and can't be considered fact due to my limited knowledge of the specific application
 
#18 ·
I've tried researching it, and have had several different conclusions. Several places said that the frame is a hydro formed frame and therefore is not able to be sectioned or welded on. Then others say that it's not hydro formed and as long as it's done carefully it's general practice. And I've even read that since the early 2000s gm has used a special steel in their frames and it cannot be welded on at all. So confusing. I'm pretty confident in this new shop, it helps that they are attached to a reputable dealership.
 
#21 ·
I've always been taught that when you get good penatration with a proper bead. that the original material is weaker then weld bead and will break before the weld does. Im a little confused on how the welded section of the frame would be considered a weak point, Im not a certified welder by any means, just going off of what I have learned.:confused:
 
#22 ·
The weld itself, if properly done, will not likely fail.

With improper procedure, the area immediately surrounding the weld - the Heat Affected Zone - can be prone to failure, particularly if the steel has a high % of carbon or special alloy.

Follow GM's published upfitter welding procedures, have a qualified welder complete the repair with proper inspection, and rest easy.

Or, if insurance is willing to pay for it, replace the frame and rest even easier.
 
#25 ·
Is the seat in your truck bent backward? Did the belt pre-tensioner fire?
 
#26 ·
I know that the replacing the seatbelt assemblies was in the first estimate that I got, which I thought was strange since I didn't have my belt on? I really do wish I had been wearing it, it would of likely kept me from hitting my head on the top of the cab and jamming my neck and sholders, and saved some of the trips to the chiropractor.
 
#29 ·
Heres a look at how our trucks perform in a crash...

Watch the front seatbelts closely (starting around 0:30 into the video), and you can see them first get yanked tight (pretensioner), then they "relax"/stretch (EMR) as the dummy goes forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clTmcsO9tiw

And another video that shows it more in detail. Force limiter is just another name for an EMR, same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k2twNZc-gGI

Ben
 
#31 ·
This seat belt technology has been around for quite a wile on most makes and models.
 
#32 ·
yeah Mercedes introduced pre-tensioners on the old W126 way back in the early-80's.

GM full size trucks/SUV's got pre-tensioners in 2007.
 
#33 ·
Hi,
I am curious of what became of your truck? I am in almost the same boat. Rear ended very hard. Insurance company tried to just pay for visual damages, bumper, bedside, hitch ,etc. The body shop I took it to I trust, and they wrote up an estimate for frame replacement. Insurance accepted that and is paying an additional $8000 to have the frame replaced. But now the body shop is telling me that they can fix the frame and I could pocket the $8000. They assured me they can fix it well enough I could be comfortable towing my travel trailer and everything. Any opinions on that gladly accepted!
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top