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Diesel Exhaust Fluid issue hopefully resolved

77K views 161 replies 41 participants last post by  msdunkel 
#1 · (Edited)
My DEF system never did read how much DEF I actually had in the tank. Hopefully got it fixed today and I did learn a few new things that GM sent out to the mechanics very recently. This could be stuff you already know, but I doesn't hurt to try to give some facts.

The new GM suggestion for when to add DEF is when the 1st warning light is activated and your DIC reads Exhaust Fluid Range: 1000. They suggest to add 3.5 gallons at that time. You must drive the truck for a while to get the system to read the level again. If the DIC doesn't clear then after you shut the truck off for 5 minutes it SHOULD clear the system.

If your truck does what mine did and what quite a few others have done, the system won't read the change and your range will continue to fall. You must get it fixed or you will lose speed and power when you get under 75 miles left. The mechanic must drain the tank and put in a new calibration system. The new system came out 1/13/2011 is what the papers showed.

Hopefully your new truck won't run into the DEF issues. I can't really answer any questions because I'm no mechanic. I'm just trying to spread word on what I was told and what information I saw.
 
#2 ·
Interesting.....................................Did they give you a invoice with any number on it?
 
#5 ·
During 2011 there were multiple releases of the programming associated with PIP4864, and then a recall (for 2011 trucks) in the fall of 2011.

If you have a version from 13 Jan 2011, you are probably not yet done with this issue.
 
#7 ·
Yes its' intact.

PIP4864 rev D was done because it had the classic issue of not resetting after a def refill. 4 or 5 weeks later (and 500 miles from home) it decided it needed fluid again, but would only take less than a quart, and would not reset. Found a dealer, and because of knowledge from this site, was able to work with service writer to keep researching in his computer and find PIP4864. (He wanted to follow a procedure that was for a different problem ). Anyway, he agreed PIP4864 was the correct thing to do, and the truck has been trouble free since.

I've had zero troubles since PIP4864 rev F was applied in late spring 2011. I had the 'recall' programming done late in the fall.

The truck has just over 30,000 miles.
 
#10 ·
I think that I need to take mine in to get checked. Mine did give me the low fluid warning. Then soon there after I get the "Engine Power Reduced" warning. Now the truck runs a little funny. Doesn't seem to have the power it use to have..
 
#11 ·
Has any got the poor quality of DEF light? I got the light once, took it to the dealership (even thou the light went away) they said they update the program and that it should be fine. But yesterday the same light came back on. ANyone have this issue?
 
#12 ·
same issue

well - here ya go since I just experienced this.

1. light came on def quality poor - dealer indicated it was an egr issue
2. replaced egr - no light
3. went on vacation
4. light came on again - def qaulity poor
5. took it to a dealer in suffolk VA - Duke Automotive (recoomend them highley)
well they indicated there were several bulletins, pip4991, pip5007a, pi0749.
well they worked on it for 10 to 12 hours and they did the following
checked the def
chedked the tank
cheked the sprayer
nox2 doesent bottom on coast down (rear nox sensor), but it was within specs
all passed
light went out
6. got the vehicle back
7. light went on after 100 miles
8. took it back to duke and they did a dpf regen, which entailed getting the truck up to 2500rpms for 70 minutes, which intern got the exhaust up to 1100f.
9. after the burn off, the nox2 sensor read normal.
We suspect that the nox2 sensor was fouled. they offered to replace it, but since it was reading fine, we decided not to.

we have an open case with gm on this and will be working with my local dealer, who misdiagnosed the problem initially.

the real problem, in my opinion is that the nox2 sensor is located in the wrong place (in the front of the dpf), and during normal regen, and during expansion (cooling) gets on the sensor.

in addition, it was expressed to me that gm indicated they have issues with this nox sensor (wonder why).................
Hope this helps. Pleaes ping me if you want further details...
 
#14 ·
I just got the poor quality DEF today,gonna try adding some DEF tomorrow. Funny because I was driving a flooded street after the storm here.
I already had a new DEF tank changed out under warranty due to some temp problem?
It was giving engine light problem. Hate when it does that because the remote start wont work if theres an engine problem light on.
Will both lights clear when you add new DEF or will I need to take to dealer to reset the light?
Thanks
 
#15 ·
DEF Poor Quality

So pleased i am not the only one with these issues!! bought my 2011 Denali back in December 2012 with less than 20000 kilos on it...drove home with it and had an awesome week of driving my new truck before the trouble started! been having DEF fluid troubles off and on since then. latest was on vacation recently in Rapid City, SD. although they chalked that visit up to bad fuel...which will throw the same codes as having poor Exhaust fluid?? i have had this same code come up 8....yes...8 times. i have been reduced to 7 kilos per hour...so slow that i could have gotten out and beat the truck to where i was going!!! they have changed out the whole system, sensors and all...the list is long! i hope they now have it fixed cause i dont know if i can take much more. i have heard of guys now chipping and bypassing the emission system all together! thats my next step if it happens again. i am all for emission reduction but this is rediculous!! and for something so irrelevent to reduce the speed of the truck??? GM sure failed with this system! anyway, still love my new GM... just hope the issues stop. Forums such as this one is awesome!! one of the most important things i have learned is educate yourself!! you have to be well aware going in as the service writter follows procedure...i have found when they pull the history on the truck it is not always explained very well what was already done to the truck...you have to explain it for them so they know the real story.
 
#16 ·
Revin7- is that because you're pissed because you are pushin your pedal through the floor doing 7kmph. :poke[1]: LOL. I feel for you, I really do.

Ever up to Edmonton in Sept. should plan to go to the Diesel Drags in Nisku.
 
#18 ·
#19 ·
Just bought a 2011 with 48k on it. I've put less than 500 miles on it and have poor quality DEF and check engine light come on. Took right back to dealer and he cleared codes and topped off DEF. Truck ran great on way home. (approx 150 miles) Get to my door, check engine light comes on. WTF? This is after a fillup with fresh fuel. Can they be related or am I seeing something different such as a DEF system problem? I really like this truck but not happy at all with this b.s. Thank you for any help or advice.
 
#20 ·
Bump to keep thread alive.
 
#22 ·
That would give me a cel? I asked dealer to look up all bulletins and recalls for the vehicle and will set up an appointment for me. They have been decent about it, but I wonder if they've dealt with this type of thing before. I have to ask why the DEF quality light would come on also. Is it because the nox was faulty, telling computer the DEF isnt working? Will I hurt anything if these lights stay on to drive the truck?
 
#23 ·
nox sensor

well,

it appears that the rear nox sensor was the issue on my vehicle. It would read normal during normal driving, however on coast down (foot off the gas), it would not "bottom out" which intern did not read a 70% nox reduction. I was told it takes to events to set the code before you get the "def fluid quality poor" message.

During my conversations, with several technicians in virginia (on vacation) and in pa (home), GM is indicating they are having issues with the nox sensor's.

We need GM to step up to the plate here and re-engineer their emissions system. Until they figure this whole mess out, I would recommend that they remove the limp modes from the emissions warnings until things are fixed/updated...

In the mean time, I have taken up attempting to convince the boss of the family, that we need to remove this emissions equipment so we do not get stuck with the truck again. She agrees that after the warantee is over, but I am trying to move here in the appropriate direction.

Come on GM get on this issue...
 
#24 ·
That make sense to me as I do tend to coast not wanting to wear on brakes that often. That would tend to load up the nox sensor and cause my issue. I wonder how many of us are dealing with this issue as I see a whole bunch of DMax on the roads out here. Is this sensor able to be pulled out and cleaned? I would do that myself.
 
#25 ·
yes and no

yes and no.

while on vacation and the truck was in a local dealership diagnosing the problem, one of the last things they did was do a dpf regen.

dpf regen is taking the vehile up to 2500rpm's for up to 70 minutes, thus getting the exhaust temperature up to over 1100f. this effectivley burns off any contaminents on the sensors and the particulate filter. However my beleif is that the rear nox sensor is getting all fouled up.

after the dpf regen it was 5:00pm friday and the sensors were reading better and it was close to a new vehicle's readings. the system was getting a 90% nox reduction, where 70% was benchmark.

Well after getting it home, the local delership did the same test and found out that the nox sensor was not bottoming out on coast down. thus my feeling is we had 2 issues, a fouled sensor (cleared by the dpf regen) and a sensor going bad.

the dpf regen let the sensor read close to normal and thus not setting a code. the sensor was replaced and the system is working as expected now.

come on GM chime in and let us know what you are doing about this issue.

we know you read this.
 
#26 ·
So, dropped off truck at stealership. I got on their computer and showed service manager this thread and a few others. I was told, "Dont believe everything on the Internet". Uhhh, okay, fix my truck dummy. Prove me wrong. I know GM has posted bulletins so I told him to check any and all then get back to me. I'm all about Chevy products and hope for a positive resolution. GM, dealership is Dralle in Peotone Illinois. How bout letting them in on any fix? Yes, please do chime in and let us faithful remain just that!!!


p.s. If I run my truck at 2500rpm for 70 minutes, I'd be doing approximately 95 mph. I see 80mph at 2krpm. How do you do a regen without breaking the law?
 
#27 ·
I bought my truck in Frankfort at Phillips. Not too far from Peotone. Anyway, you don't need to drive any different then normal to regen. If you do short drives daily then it takes a few days to finish. If on the highway then you'll get it done relatively fast without driving fast. Regens will be working at 30 mph or faster. I just got another thing in the mail from Chevy about the recall I never had done. Phillips told me that if the truck ever acts up again that they will then do the work for the recall.
 
#29 ·
the dpf 70 minute regen is done with the aide of a GM scan tool sitting in the parking lot.

it produces alot of heat and noise.
My 2011 was having the same problem as you and the dealership load the latest def bulletin in June.. 100 miles later the poor quality light... After that they ordered nox2 sensor and I haven't had a problem since.... Mu truck had 10k miles on it when this happened.. I've put 1500 miles on it since the fix... I'm ready to delete this crap to be honest... It's such a headache to keep taking the truck to the dealer to try this and to try that.. It's not very convenient when you need to go to work everyday... Hopefully it'll stay out of the shop for awhile...
 
#30 ·
well my issue began somewhere around 18,000 and now I have 20,400 and the nox2 sensor was replaced at 20,200.

well I have the wife to deal with. can someone provide any good details on how to convince the boss lady to let me delete this crap and loose the warantee.

ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
#32 ·
Thats just it, I dont want to lose the warranty. I'd like to be able to say I'm covered and not worried about any issues. If GM knows they are having issues, why does it take so long to admit a problem and just deal with it? FFS its September 2012!
 
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