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Diesel Exhaust Fluid issue hopefully resolved

77K views 161 replies 41 participants last post by  msdunkel 
#1 · (Edited)
My DEF system never did read how much DEF I actually had in the tank. Hopefully got it fixed today and I did learn a few new things that GM sent out to the mechanics very recently. This could be stuff you already know, but I doesn't hurt to try to give some facts.

The new GM suggestion for when to add DEF is when the 1st warning light is activated and your DIC reads Exhaust Fluid Range: 1000. They suggest to add 3.5 gallons at that time. You must drive the truck for a while to get the system to read the level again. If the DIC doesn't clear then after you shut the truck off for 5 minutes it SHOULD clear the system.

If your truck does what mine did and what quite a few others have done, the system won't read the change and your range will continue to fall. You must get it fixed or you will lose speed and power when you get under 75 miles left. The mechanic must drain the tank and put in a new calibration system. The new system came out 1/13/2011 is what the papers showed.

Hopefully your new truck won't run into the DEF issues. I can't really answer any questions because I'm no mechanic. I'm just trying to spread word on what I was told and what information I saw.
 
#127 ·
So here I thought I was going to escape the DEF issues but alas last week during a bit of a cold snap as I'm driving in a snow storm the service DEF system light comes on with a DIC message saying to take the vehicle to the dealer for service now.

So I take the vehicle to the dealer who does 2 recalls that are on the DEF system and tells me he can't clear the code for the service light and message that the truck has to be driven for 30 minutes when the outside temp is above -7C. OK but it's -18 at the time. Two days ago it is warmer and I have the opportunity for a 30 minute drive to nowhere so off I go, an hour later light and message are not reset.

Back to dealer yesterday to solve the problem. Mid afternoon I call for a status and am told they are working on it, just about done. I head over an hour later to see the truck still on the hoist. Get told that it's not fixed, problem is DEF pump isn't pumping and they don't know why. So after a full day they are just now figuring this out? I have to leave the truck overnight.

Today I call and get told that they've now determined that the DEF pump is defective and that it isn't covered under warranty! $766 for a pump which isn't available anywhere or $744 for the tank pump assembly which they can get. I tell the dealer that without the DEF system working the truck won't meet emmissions so part has to be under warranty and he agrees but says it isn't.

I tell him the truck needs to be fixed and under warranty and he says he has a call into the GM district service manager but hasn't heard back from him yet. I also call GM customer service and tell them the story.

I better get a call back soon with the good news that in fact the part is covered and my truck is ready to go.

This has to be one of the worst customer service issues I've heard of.
 
#128 ·
It just amazes me that different people from different state that go to different dealership all get feed the same BS... When I was reading your story it was like I was the guy writing about my experience at the dealership.... Just crazy to me....
 
#130 ·
So my truck is spending another night at the dealership because GM won't take responsibility for the mess of an emissions system they've put on the truck. Well actually the district manager told the dealer to offer that I would pay half to have the new tank installed so to me that says they do admit that there is a problem and they should replace the defective stuff at no cost to me.

What really burns me is that page 24 of my warranty guide says that the emission control system warranty is for 5 years or 80,000 kilometers whichever comes first and I'm clearly under both (truck has 72,000 kms on it). Page 25 begins a list of "most" (which means not all in English) systems that affect emissions ... and on page 27 it lists the Diesel Exhaust Emissions Reduction Fluid Tank which must be the tank the dealer is telling me isn't covered (and even if it isn't the statement is a list of most).

I realize that some owners (maybe even most) have had no problems with their DEF systems (and as I said in my earlier post I too thought that I was not going to see any problems) but this is no reason for GM to not take responsibility for those of us who are having problems and to fix them. Based on the posts in this forum clearly there are quite a few who are having problems and given GM's warranty booklet states that the emission system is under warranty for 5 years or 80,000 kms (I'm in Canada) they should not be trying to get out of fixing our problems.

Is GM trying to lose me again as a customer like they did back in '89 with the disaster of a van that I got back then and they refused to make right? Sad given that I grew up in a GM family and my Dad worked for GM.
 
#132 ·
FWIW, the 2011's had a recall to correct def issues in the fall of 2011 (yes, after the 2012's were being shipped). Tons of info on old threads.
The recall corrected issues with the def level monitoring not resetting itself when the tank was refilled. They also added extra tank insulation on Canadian trucks.
Mine has been trouble free since the recall was applied in the fall of '11.
There have been others that have had def pump failures, but I don't think we can call it common.
Like you, I would expect warranty to cover the pump/tank.
 
#133 ·
I brought mine in for the recall as soon as I received the letter. It didn't prevent problems with mine. That was in October 2011. I now have 25,000 miles on it and been in the shop twice already.


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#134 ·
Well the dealer (Wallace Chev in Milton, Ontario) stepped up and agreed that the repair should be done under warranty so I now have my truck back complete with a new DEF tank assembly (includes the pump which was what actually failed). Truck runs as good as new and no stupid warning lights or messages!

Very happy that the dealer finally took the right action just wish they (or more appropriately GM) could have been a little quicker about it so that I wasn't without the truck for 3 days.

I can now go back to being a satisfied GM customer.
 
#138 ·
hi,

the dealership has to follow the procedure for diagnosing a DEF issue. they first start at the fluid and go from there.

been there done that before. utilized non gm def fluid as it is way too expensive. the only thing they have to consider is that the fluid meets the requirements as indicated in the book. So to make a long story short, they started at the def fluid and ended at the rear nox sensor. Which low and behold was the problem...

The bottom line was that everything was covered under warantee.... No questions asked.

This happened on vacation. Not fun....

After discussing this in a professional manner, gm came up with a solution that fit my needs.

So in summary - this is all warantee work and after is all said and done, gm should compensate you in a fair and amicable manner.

hope this helps. Please drop me a note if you have any specific questions...
 
#139 ·
Thanks. I have gone around and around with the dealer and customer service. I have tried to stay professional and civil through all of this, but I'm at my wits end. How did you ever come up with a solution with GM? They don't seem to be willing to even consider any kind of solution.


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#141 ·
After 39k of flawless miles with 2011 duramax. I'm now getting the DEF quality poor also. On the first go round i was able to clear the problem with 70mph runs, then the CEL light came on after the quality light was gone. Took it to the dealer at 39k they did the re flash and all was well for about 2000 miles.

Now at 41k and quality poor is back on. cleared it with 70 mph run. Light is now off, but still went to dealer. Dealer says not running GM DEF fluid is causing the light. Which I think is total BS since I have been using blue DEF for the life of the truck. Dealer is running on tech 2 now to see if anything else shows up. Will report back on that

Does anyone have the bulletin for NOX Sensor change?

Anyone have problem come back after NOX sensors were changed??
 
#142 ·
Yes they change my front nox sensor...light came back on...they changed my rear nox sensor...light came back on....then last fix, they cleaned def injector, so far so good...but I'm trading it in next week on a 1500 6.2 L gas engine with max tow package, I've lost all trust in my truck, nervous to even take it out of town
 
#148 ·
I fixed my problem by trading it in on a gas 1500.
Wish gmc would step up on these problems.
 
#150 ·
Well, back at it again. I had the truck in the shop in July for a check engine light. They replaced the DEF tank because the temperature sensor in the DEF tank went out. They said the sensor can't be ordered separate from the tank, so they had to order a whole new tank w/sensor. I had the truck for a total of 20 days and it's telling me I'm out of DEF fluid when the tank is full. So, it's back at the shop and I'm waiting for an answer. Only 32000 miles and this is my 4th time without my truck because GM can't build a decent quality truck. I'm either pulling the exhaust system and voiding the warranty or I'm selling it and getting a Ford. Thanks for fixing our trucks GM...thanks for nothing!!!


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#155 ·
Has the truck had the recall performed? (it was issued in the fall of 2011). Recall was to correct issues with the def level not resetting when refilled - just as your truck seems to be doing.
 
#151 ·
Well don't expect anything different with the Ford.....nephews f250 with 1500 miles is in the shop now having his new stuff put in.....delete it and be happy

Sent through the Turbo of my Duramax
 
#152 ·
I think that's my best option. That or get rid of it and find a good LBZ or LMM. I passed up a very clean LMM for this truck, thinking I would have a new truck with the full warranty...I should've gone with the used LMM. Is it just the 2011s with these problems or are the newer ones having these problems too? I'm assuming it's plaguing the newer ones as well being that your nephew only has 1500 miles on his Ford. You would think after a couple of years they would've worked all the bugs out of it.


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#153 ·
So far I'm 10,000 with not a single problem with my 13.......I am however snatching the extra weight from under my truck very soon. The lml is stronger than earlier models...i'd delete and enjoy if you are able to do so. Alabama has no inspection stickers to get so I'll be ok.

Sent screaming through the Turbo of my Duramax
 
#154 ·
No advantage to an LMM which has the known defect of putting raw fuel into the cylinders at the end of the exhaus cycle, a portion of which ends up in the crankcase where it dillutes and contaminates the motor oil.

I have been dealing with the problems created by failed emissions control components for 40 years and it is a part of life like paying income taxes. I don't evade my taxes or evade my responsibility to pollute as little as possible while driving - I don't throw trash out the window onto the highway either.

If DPF is a terrible problem then get an old polluter that puts out 100x the pollution as with a 2006-early 2007 LBZ truck or get a truck with the much cleaner burning gas engine. 90% of the people on this forum seem to have little real need for a diesel engine in their truck and could just as easily be driving with a cheaper to own and operate gas V-8 under the hood.

For too many a heavy duty diesel powered pickup is the new muscle car which is going back to the 1970's in more ways than one. I guess some things don't change.
 
#157 ·
90% of people anywhere don't really need trucks either. They could be driving a Prius instead, but choose to drive trucks. It's not an issue of need. If I go out and spend $55k on a new vehicle, I expect it to run good. If problems arise, I expect them to be fixed and fixed properly the first time. I chose a diesel for the need to pull my camper on occasion; beside that, it is a daily commuter for me. If you want to talk pollution control, driving a diesel is more environmentally friendly than the cheaper to own and operate gas V-8's. Do I need a 3/4 ton diesel as a daily commuter? No. Do I have the money to own and operate a 3/4 ton diesel? Yes. Pulling the DEF system from the truck won't necessarily make it a worse polluter than many gas or diesel powered vehicles on the road right now, but it will make it a more reliable vehicle. I don't want to get on a long trip from home, pulling my 5th wheel with the family and it throw a code again. I would rather spit out a little more NOx and make it to where I need to go and have the peace of mind while doing it than to wonder when is it going to crap out on me again.
 
#158 ·
got my truck back from the dealership today. had the def quality light last week and finally limited me to 55 mph. truck has 65xxx on it. dealer called and told me that a bad nox sensor was to blame and could replace it for $450, since i'm out of the 50k emissions warranty. i picked the truck up without replacing the sensor.

i think you folks know what is coming next.
 
#159 ·
Hell yeah, I'm not far behind you! They are replacing the DEF tank on mine again! They just put a new tank in less than a month ago! It's covered under warranty, but a real pain in the ass! Not having a ride for 4-5 days sucks, but luckily I do have co-workers that live close by. I told my wife I would hold out until they try the "not covered under warranty" again, but this is ridiculous. This one is the last straw for me, I will be ripping all of that crap out once things slow down at work and I have time. Unfortunately, that won't be until mid to late February.
 
#161 ·
So if I do the exhaust, which exhaust/tuner should I go with? I want the full DPF and DEF delete.
 
#162 ·
I guess I was one of the lucky ones. My truck wasn't throwing any codes that affected performance; however, my mileage and DEF consumption were extremely poor which made me bring the truck in. After they hooked it up to their computer they found codes for a faulty NOX sensor (if I recall correctly it was the rear one). Since repairing the sensor I've got an extra mile or two per gallon, and my DEF usage has dropped significantly.
 
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