Synthetic oil suggestions?

[haunruh]

Might want to take a look at this independent lab study report on diesel motor oils ...
http://www.turbodieselregister.com/TDR57_Oil.pdf

Very interesting results. It's not always the high priced product that's the best!!

[bill1234]

Thanks haunruh. Very interesting article. It is hard to know what to believe when it comes to oil products. My son, a diesel mechanic on big rigs, tells me I should use Shaeffer synthetic diesel oil. It comes out of St.Louis I believe. I never see it in any of the comparisons. It is sold to fleets and farmers directly by sales reps. I suspect any of these products will do a good job under normal conditions and frequent oil changes. I doubt the price has anything to do with it for the average guy's truck useage. I'm sending the report to my son just to see what he thinks. He's a Cummins guy.

[jduramax]

Originally Posted by Duluth Diesel

Not all synthetic oils are the same. Mobil, Rotella, and Valvoline "full synthetics" are just Group III oils. Even though the label might say Full Synthetic, it doesn't mean the same thing for all oils. As for extended drain intervals, it is fine to run extended drain intervals with a Group IV synthetic oil if you couple it with better filtration. Not all oil filters are created equal either. Fram and other cheap oil filters don't filter much below 35 micron and are just cellulose (paper based) filters. Higher quality oil filters have synthetic media, not paper, and filter much better. AMSOIL Eao oil filters filter down to 15 micron, and their bypass filtration systems filter down to 2 micron at 98% efficiency.

There are many oils out there that call themselves synthetic, but not all are created equal, and that's important to know. You do get what you pay for. Group III synthetic oils only use about 12% synthetic base stocks. The rest is hyrdocracked petroleum base stocks. For major oil companies who have their money in crude oil refining, the word "synthetic" is merely a marketing term. It does not mean 100%, but just that a percentage of synthetic base stock goes into their product.

The oils that are commonly mentioned are Group II and Group III synthetics with the exception of Royal Purple, which is a Group V. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic (PAO) but also uses Group V Ester technology. It gives you the best of Group IV and Group V synthetics. Mobil 1 is a Group III synthetic. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic.

In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.

Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has some of the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. AMSOIL differs from Group III oils. As a Group IV oil, it uses 100% pure synthetic base stocks. This is why you can run it for longer intervals.

Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very pure base oil with excellent properties. By starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces, you can pretty much guarantee that every molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the properties are exactly what you designed in, not compromised by impurities. Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about 1990. The original synthetics were designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their high- performance turbo-charged radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.

One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical called an olefin, and make new molecules by attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.

These PAO base oils have an enormous advantage over mineral base oils in low temperature performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the oil from forming acids.

Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is called Group V. Esters start life as fatty acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters, diesters, and polyesters. Group V base stocks are the most expensive of all to produce. However, the esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an ester base oil all by itself will do a very decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about making a superior oil will usually mix some Group V oils into their base stock.

Oils that are strictly Group V ester oils tend to be better suited for high RPM, hot running, air cooled engines. 100% ester based oils are usually more expensive than Group IV oils, and don't have the longevity of PAO (Group IV) or PAO/Ester mixes oils. Group V oils perform very well in the shorter term. Oils like Royal Purple and Redline are Group V oils. They perform very well in race engines and in applications where drain intervals are factory spec or shorter, whereas Group IV oils are better suited for the long haul of extended intervals.

Whatever oil you choose, know what you are buying. Just because the jug says "synthetic" doesn't mean it is made from 100% pure synthetic base stocks.

and you just happen to be an amsoil dealer?? shell has been making good quality heavy duty diesel motor oil for years. products speak for themselves. rotella t 5w40 is a full synthetic oil designed for heavy duty applications. visit shell's website. I've been using rotella for quite some time. won't switch. I do use amsoil products in my motorcycle................

[jduramax]

Originally Posted by Duluth Diesel

Not all synthetic oils are the same. Mobil, Rotella, and Valvoline "full synthetics" are just Group III oils. Even though the label might say Full Synthetic, it doesn't mean the same thing for all oils. As for extended drain intervals, it is fine to run extended drain intervals with a Group IV synthetic oil if you couple it with better filtration. Not all oil filters are created equal either. Fram and other cheap oil filters don't filter much below 35 micron and are just cellulose (paper based) filters. Higher quality oil filters have synthetic media, not paper, and filter much better. AMSOIL Eao oil filters filter down to 15 micron, and their bypass filtration systems filter down to 2 micron at 98% efficiency.

There are many oils out there that call themselves synthetic, but not all are created equal, and that's important to know. You do get what you pay for. Group III synthetic oils only use about 12% synthetic base stocks. The rest is hyrdocracked petroleum base stocks. For major oil companies who have their money in crude oil refining, the word "synthetic" is merely a marketing term. It does not mean 100%, but just that a percentage of synthetic base stock goes into their product.

The oils that are commonly mentioned are Group II and Group III synthetics with the exception of Royal Purple, which is a Group V. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic (PAO) but also uses Group V Ester technology. It gives you the best of Group IV and Group V synthetics. Mobil 1 is a Group III synthetic. AMSOIL is a Group IV synthetic.

In the late 1990s, Castrol started selling an oil made from Group III base oil and called it SynTec Full Synthetic. Mobil sued Castrol, asserting that this oil was not synthetic, but simply a highly refined petroleum oil, and therefore it was false advertising to call it synthetic. In 1999, Mobil lost their lawsuit. It was decided that the word "synthetic" was a marketing term and referred to properties, not to production methods or ingredients. Castrol continues to make SynTec out of Group III base oils, that is highly purified mineral oil with most all of the cockroach bits removed.

Shortly after Mobil lost their lawsuit, most oil companies started reformulating their synthetic oils to use Group III base stocks instead of PAOs or diester stocks as their primary component. Most of the "synthetic oil" you can buy today is actually mostly made of this highly-distilled and purified dino-juice called Group III oil. Group III base oils cost about half as much as the synthetics. By using a blend of mostly Group III oils and a smaller amount of "true" synthetics, the oil companies can produce a product that has some of the same properties as the "true" synthetics, and nearly the same cost as the Group III oil. AMSOIL differs from Group III oils. As a Group IV oil, it uses 100% pure synthetic base stocks. This is why you can run it for longer intervals.

Synthetic oils were originally designed for the purpose of having a very pure base oil with excellent properties. By starting from scratch and building up your oil molecules from little pieces, you can pretty much guarantee that every molecule in the oil is just like every other molecule, and therefore the properties are exactly what you designed in, not compromised by impurities. Synthetics were thus originally a reaction to the relatively poor refining processes available from about 1930 to about 1990. The original synthetics were designed for the Army Air Force in WW II. They simply could not make their high- performance turbo-charged radial engines stay alive on the available motor oils of the time.

One process for making synthetic base oils is to start with a chemical called an olefin, and make new molecules by attaching them to each other in long chains, hence "poly." The primary advantage of Poly-Alpha-Olefin "PAO" base oil is that all the molecules in the base oil are pretty much identical, so it's easy to get the base oil to behave exactly as you like. PAOs are called Group IV base oils.

These PAO base oils have an enormous advantage over mineral base oils in low temperature performance and in resistance to oxidation, which is critical in keeping the oil from forming acids.

Another type of base oil is made from refined and processed esters and is called Group V. Esters start life as fatty acids in plants and animals, which are then chemically combined into esters, diesters, and polyesters. Group V base stocks are the most expensive of all to produce. However, the esters are polar molecules and have very significant solvent properties - an ester base oil all by itself will do a very decent job of keeping your engine clean. So, people who are serious about making a superior oil will usually mix some Group V oils into their base stock.

Oils that are strictly Group V ester oils tend to be better suited for high RPM, hot running, air cooled engines. 100% ester based oils are usually more expensive than Group IV oils, and don't have the longevity of PAO (Group IV) or PAO/Ester mixes oils. Group V oils perform very well in the shorter term. Oils like Royal Purple and Redline are Group V oils. They perform very well in race engines and in applications where drain intervals are factory spec or shorter, whereas Group IV oils are better suited for the long haul of extended intervals.

Whatever oil you choose, know what you are buying. Just because the jug says "synthetic" doesn't mean it is made from 100% pure synthetic base stocks.

ROTELLA® T Synthetic

Fully synthetic heavy-duty engine oil.



Product Description



Shell Rotella® T Synthetic SAE 5W-40 is a fully synthetic heavy-duty diesel and gasoline engine oil developed especially to meet the requirements of North American driving.



The exclusive Shell formulation offers users exceptional performance and protection in combination with enhanced fuel economy potential over conventional 15W-40 motor oils. This synthetic multigrade engine oil meets the service requirements of virtually all four cycle diesel and many gasoline engine manufacturers.



Applications

Recommended for new and older diesel- and gasoline-powered vehicles, including personal vehicles and commercial vehicles such as on-road, off-the-road, truck rental, pickups, delivery, utility, and school bus fleetsMeets or exceeds the diesel engine requirements of API CI-4 PLUS, Cummins CES 20078, Detroit Diesel, John Deere, Dodge, Ford, GM, International, Mack EO-N Premium Plus 03, Volvo and others; For gasoline engines, it exceeds API SL.
Features/Benefits



Formulated for multipurpose use, simplifying inventory needsOutstanding wear protection and bearing corrosion control helps maximize engine lifeHelps speed cold starts even with low winter temperaturesEnhanced oxidation stability and soot control, especially at higher temperatures, aids service lifeImproved fuel economy – when compared to conventional SAE 15W-40 oilsProduct is warranted against defect and has performance which meets or exceeds virtually all equipment manufacturer’s engine oil warranty requirements.
Approvals and Recommendations

API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CFAPI SL, SJ, SHCummins CES 20078, 20076, 20071Detroit Diesel 7SE 270Mack EO-N Premium Plus ’03, EO-N, EO-M PlusVolvo VDS 2

[KB3MMX]

Originally Posted by jduramax

ROTELLA® T Synthetic

Fully synthetic heavy-duty engine oil.



Product Description



Shell Rotella® T Synthetic SAE 5W-40 is a fully synthetic heavy-duty diesel and gasoline engine oil developed especially to meet the requirements of North American driving.



The exclusive Shell formulation offers users exceptional performance and protection in combination with enhanced fuel economy potential over conventional 15W-40 motor oils. This synthetic multigrade engine oil meets the service requirements of virtually all four cycle diesel and many gasoline engine manufacturers.



Applications

Recommended for new and older diesel- and gasoline-powered vehicles, including personal vehicles and commercial vehicles such as on-road, off-the-road, truck rental, pickups, delivery, utility, and school bus fleetsMeets or exceeds the diesel engine requirements of API CI-4 PLUS, Cummins CES 20078, Detroit Diesel, John Deere, Dodge, Ford, GM, International, Mack EO-N Premium Plus 03, Volvo and others; For gasoline engines, it exceeds API SL.
Features/Benefits



Formulated for multipurpose use, simplifying inventory needsOutstanding wear protection and bearing corrosion control helps maximize engine lifeHelps speed cold starts even with low winter temperaturesEnhanced oxidation stability and soot control, especially at higher temperatures, aids service lifeImproved fuel economy – when compared to conventional SAE 15W-40 oilsProduct is warranted against defect and has performance which meets or exceeds virtually all equipment manufacturer’s engine oil warranty requirements.
Approvals and Recommendations

API CI-4 PLUS, CI-4, CH-4, CG-4, CF-4, CFAPI SL, SJ, SHCummins CES 20078, 20076, 20071Detroit Diesel 7SE 270Mack EO-N Premium Plus ’03, EO-N, EO-M PlusVolvo VDS 2

That's EXACTLY the point with the Castrol and the 5W-40 Rotella "Synthetic" oils.
The oil companies fought to be able to LABEL a GROUP III oil as a "Synthetic", wonder why.......to make more $$ on a less expensive product.
It is a marketing ploy BC the oil is simply a highly refined CONVENTIONAL oil.
Mobil, Amsoil and Royal Pruple are TRUE Group IV SYNTHETICS.
If it's not Group IV, you're paying for marketing hype.:Smack

[MIKE]

Ive Now Switched To Royal Purple 15w40 And Have Picked Up 1-2 Mpg Difference And The Engine Sounds Quieter I Use To Use Lucas High Tbn 15w40 And Has No Problems But Now My Shop Is A Royal Purple Dealer So I Get A Damn Good Price On It

[KB3MMX]

Originally Posted by MIKE

Ive Now Switched To Royal Purple 15w40 And Have Picked Up 1-2 Mpg Difference And The Engine Sounds Quieter I Use To Use Lucas High Tbn 15w40 And Has No Problems But Now My Shop Is A Royal Purple Dealer So I Get A Damn Good Price On It

Yup, Royal Purple is good stuff, it is a true synthetic like Amsoil and Mobil.

A "Marketing" synthetic is Castrol Syntec or Rotella "Synthetc" 5W-40.

[jduramax]

Originally Posted by KB3MMX

Yup, Royal Purple is good stuff, it is a true synthetic like Amsoil and Mobil.

A "Marketing" synthetic is Castrol Syntec or Rotella "Synthetc" 5W-40.

"marketing" synthetic??? what color is the sky where you are at, my friend. because you're definately not from this planet.........
shell has been making quality products for years. their rotella line of oils are used my many people. my friend has 3 dodge trucks that are work trucks and used hard. he has used rotella, especially 5w40 in the winter months and has never had a problem. all three cummins are high mileage........
no question amsoil and mobil are quality products. i've used mobil1 in my wife's car since day one. but i'll continue to use rotella in my truck because it is also a quality product.........

[HARP]

Interesting loooong response but not fully accurate. Rotella-T 5w40 is a "true" synthetic.

[KB3MMX]

Originally Posted by jduramax

"marketing" synthetic??? what color is the sky where you are at, my friend. because you're definately not from this planet.........
shell has been making quality products for years. their rotella line of oils are used my many people. my friend has 3 dodge trucks that are work trucks and used hard. he has used rotella, especially 5w40 in the winter months and has never had a problem. all three cummins are high mileage........
no question amsoil and mobil are quality products. i've used mobil1 in my wife's car since day one. but i'll continue to use rotella in my truck because it is also a quality product.........

I'm just going on WHY the oil can actually be "MARKETED" as a "SYNTHETIC" get yourself up to speed and read on how Castrol opened the flood gates for group 3 oils(with legal power) to be sold as "Synthetics" where they weren't previously able to!!
This is years old...
THAT's why ROTELLA "SYNTHETIC" is a MARKETING ploy and is able to be labeled that way....
It is UNFAIR to those who ACTUALLY make a synthetic oil!!!!!!!

Rotella "SYNTHETIC" is a GROUP 3 hydrocracked CONVENTIONAL oil, NOT a group 4 PAO(A TRUE Synthetic oil).

**GROUP 3 HYDROCRACKED conventional oils(labeled "synthetic") :
--> Castrol SYNTEC
--> Rotella 5W-40 "Synthetic"

**Group 4 oils TRUE PAO SYNTHETICS :
--> Amsoil
--> Royal Purple
--> Mobil Synthetic oils






Maybe Doing some research to get the facts before you bash people would be a good idea next time on YOUR planet!?!?

See ya