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Holocaust Prosecutions!?!?!?

7K views 41 replies 16 participants last post by  Firefighter08 
#1 ·
So I was watching the news the other night and they had this 93 yr old man in a wheelchair charged with the deaths of more than 28,000 people in the Holocaust. What do you guys think about this still going on.

I dont think anything in the Holocaust shoulda happened, but orders are orders and all of you understand that. Just want some feedback or rhyme or reason I kinda felt bad for the old man in a way, but in another way he did some heinous things in his younger years. I think its Germany who is still going after some 900+ that are still alive tracking them down and charging them, but then letting them go cause of old age. Another guy was 97 when he was found and charged.

I dunno Just a lil on the fence about the whole thing.........Discuss!
 
#2 ·
everyone should be held accountable for their actions, whether they're 3 or 93. drunk or sober, ordered to or voluntary.. time doesn't erase the past
 
#5 ·
I understand that, and maybe I need to read up on the Holocaust a little more, gotta be something I am missing.....

the lack there of knowledge on my part about it I guess they are calling these all war crimes, which in turn I would say yes have at it, butttttttttt

why waste all the time and effort to just let them go. I know this can be a touchy subject. I guess just looking at the guy reminded me of some helpless old man who was just a soldier and did what he was told to do as WRONG AS IT WAS.
 
#6 ·
Usama Bin laden wasnt an actual functional military........it was more of a cult, but you can fight the fact that Hitler's army was a cult too
 
#7 ·
I think it's not black and white. The choices they made, position they held, etc... make a big difference IMO.
 
#8 ·
i think if these retired nazi's had any decency or remorse for there actions, they would have just put there Lugers in there mouths and pulled the trigger. But the ones that havent still need to be punished
 
#9 ·
why have lenency for them though......They are old and did some horrible $hit I guess the point I am really getting at is why in the Hell just let them go.........just cause they cant even wipe their own ass anymore drag their names in the dirt and what let the public have at em?
 
#10 ·
there really is no punishment that is fair for them. If they are 93 years old they have already lived a full life so just killing them would not do them justice for the amount of pain they inflicted on an entire race of people. I am thinking serious torture, getting medieval on there old asses
 
#11 ·
i'm pretty sure they're not hunting down the privates and pfcs, they're hunting down the big dogs who were leaders of the war crimes, and got out of the country before the end of the war.

and as for why they're letting them go... i have no clue...scare tactics?? lol maybe they think if they threaten them w/ jail time, they won't kill anyone else at 94 years old...? wtf
 
#12 ·
:rofl

Why even bother spending all the time and money hunting them down, any one who did anything real during the holocaust is going to be around 85-90 years old so there just gonna let them go dont even bother, but I dont think the government would want to put this ppl in jail just to have to pay some one to wipe there ass, bath them and do w/e else. I believe capital punishment is required in these instances, the ones who would have been any sort of a human being would have either a) killed them selves or b) turned them selves over.
 
#13 ·
my opinion is opposite to most others here.... my grandfather captianed a battleship in hrmn and while i think the holocost was wrong, it was a time of war which we have never experienced.... fortunately, we will never see the atrocitires that men whi fought in the world wars...

comparisions to usama or other radicals arent appropriate or on point... the man was a soldier and did his job, its easy to look back and find fault....
 
#19 ·
my opinion is opposite to most others here.... my grandfather captianed a battleship in hrmn and while i think the holocost was wrong, it was a time of war which we have never experienced.... fortunately, we will never see the atrocitires that men whi fought in the world wars...

comparisions to usama or other radicals arent appropriate or on point... the man was a soldier and did his job, its easy to look back and find fault....
Thank you thats what I was somewhat trying to get at with this whole discussion...Im a got damn former US MARINE and I was trained to do what my superiors told me to, never was and never would be my call to go against any orders of a superior, but I like the way you said that. Seriously we havent had anything to compare to the Holocaust. I'm pretty sure they are going after anyone and everyone not just high ranking people. Nor do I condone any of their actions it was a time of either do your job or we will kill you and find someone to do it for you. Just a completely F'ed up time in history, but gents it happened. I do believe in justice but to literally hunt 900+ down just to well basically humiliate them and let them go doesnt make sense. If your gonna go through all the effort.....follow through....and finish the job dont half ass it. Yes they lived their lives out, but do you really think they lived them up? I think all of these horrible people led a life of solitude
 
#14 ·
well when the time comes for me to pay for my mess in iraq or afghanistan, i will take it like a man knowing inside i did what was right at the time. if it weren't right in my mind, i wouldn't have done it
 
#15 ·
Read the book called Flyboys. The USA charges the other countries as war criminals, and at the same time says us soldiers were " only following orders, and as such can't be charged with war crimes". I'm NOT saying the the holocost or any war is or was right, but the truth of the matter is that the victor makes the rules he wants to use, and loser is the loser, and has to take what's handed to him.
As for hunting down old people, I don't know, but it's been said" live by the sword, die by the sword".
 
#16 ·
It is a huge gray area. If you look at the big picture, a lot of Americans could be traced back to settlers who murdered, raped, enslaved, tortured..... and the list goes on. That was all done to innocent people, not for a "master race", and they weren't ordered to do it. Our country was built in the same type of violence, but not for the same purpose, we were stealing the land from the people that were here.

Don't get me wrong, I am proud to be an American and I always will be, but we did some pretty nasty stuff to get where we are too. Lucky for us the entire world wasn't able to communicate the way they could when Hitler was around and get together and stop him otherwise we might not be here right now.
 
#17 ·
extremely good point... this thread got my wheels turning... :confused:
 
#20 ·
Like many have said and I too believe in what we are doing in the middle east, but what if just saying hypothetically one day minor shit comes back on our troops. I dont believe we carry out business this way, but just a what if question.......
 
#22 ·
I think you all need to know more about the atrocities committed during the Holocaust. As far as I am concerned no human on earth could or would act like the Nazis.
Regardless of age when caught hang them all as a lesson for the future.
Please note that this DOES NOT apply to rank & file WW11 German army personnel, only to concentration camp & SS/Gestapo people.
 
#23 ·
It was almost 70 yrs ago..I'm more than over it. Sucks but really its time to move past it, IMHO the jews need to get over it, the only ones who have right to bitch are the ones who survived the concentration camps and no one else.

Wrong was done but really after 70yrs its time to get over it.
Once again I could talk about the atrocities of the Native American Indians but I really don't care about it like I said before, they should have fought harder sooner, they didn't and were almost eradicated because of it, I'm over it.

Anyways the Jews are the most bigoted group of people on earth anyways.
 
#25 ·
It's amazing what people can be brainwashed into doing, Holocaust included. Look at all the suicide bombers now, thinking they will get 40 virgins. A lot of people do what they are told is right, and when there was no way to confirm it with research (no internet) they go with everyone else.
 
#26 ·
Well, maybe, however, people are really all alike. There have been studies conducted that a shown people's reaction to authority and following orders. One test had a man in a lab coat and a doctor-like appearance, and he would tell the test subjects to administer a shock to a person in a chair, and the test showed that people were more willing to inflict pain or harm to another when told to do so by someone "in" authority. The people that gave the shock felt a release from accountability because someone in charge told them to do it.
I believe that anyone could do the same thing the nazi regime did. Look at the native Americans, and what the white people did to them, or the Spanish to the aztects, or the Catholics to almost anyone that disagreed with them for about 1400 years, what about Vladimir the impailer, Stalin, the Kehmer Rouge, the Japanese invasion of china, and more?
The only real difference to me is that the nazis took a systematic approach to the removal of anyone that was different than the ayran ideal, INCUDING GERMAN PEOPLE that were mentally or physically handicapped.
 
#28 ·
He brings up a very valid point. History doesn't teach us about the bad things we've done in US history. How we attacked Mexico to take land. We do learn about the Native Americans, but we did HORRIBLE things to Native Americans. Could you imagine them going after those military members who followed orders?
 
#29 ·
It's a shame it took so long to get a conviction. He'll probably die from his condition before he spends a month behind bars.

Adam had it right, everyone should be held accountable for their actions, past or present.

I have great respect for military, and the chain of command that follows. But when it comes down to it, the actions taken were by men against men. The utterly inhumane things that happened were done with complete disregard for human life. In a situation like that, one has to boil it down to the simple facts: millions of innocent people were exterminated for the sake of being from a different descent. Although Hitler was the man in charge and gave the orders, it was ordinary men who carried them out at his behest. When ordered to kill another at war, most soldiers have a horrible time battling with the emotions associated with taking away someone's father, someone who had a family, years of precious life behind them. Many of the SS did not consider those emotions; they simply continued to carry out their genocide.

The gruesome Holocaust to me is one of the darkest, most atrocious periods in human history. I pray that justice is carried out in this life or the next for everyone who was in any way responsible.
 
#30 ·
Well said!
Do you think that in 60 years people will be saying the 9/11 attacks were no big deal and that Bin Laden wasn't at fault? 3000 people died in the 9/11 attacks, between 11 and 17 MILLION people died in the concentration camps including POW's. It wasn't a battle it was the nazis exterminating people.
Anyone who could seriously say it was no big deal or that $hit happens is a f-in idiot.
 
#32 ·
My immediate reaction would be no mercy, but then I put it in perspective. I think about our soldiers that are fighting for our country. For what they feel is right, they have a job to do and within reason need to have some protection from prosecution for acts committed with direction from their commanding officers.

You have to remember the state that Germany was left in that allowed such acts to happen. People followed Hitler because Germany was left in ruins, and countries intentionally pushed Germany economic and social poverty. Hitler came along and put food on the tables, where the world took it away. Germany as a country regrets their acts, but other countries forced them into poverty.

Can you blame a low level infantry officer for following orders to put food on his families table? What would you do to feed your family?

The Holocaust is one of the worst tragedies that will ever happen to society, but spending millions of dollars to punish low level soldiers doesn't make anything right.

That said...

We have pursued certain high ranking officers and I completely felt that those choices were reasonable and with just cause. The office running a concentration camp, making the decisions has to face his choices, right wrong or indifferent.

Don't forget that most concentration camps were bad for the Nazi's too. Food was limited to not only the prisoners, but the soldiers too. FWIW.
 
#35 ·
The guys running concentration camps, making decisions, decision makers, high up military should be punished. The guys on the ground as a pfc, cpl, etc... shouldn't be hunted unless they absolutely did something inhumane themselves.
This was my point.

were any amercians ever tried for the destruction of hiroshima and nagasaki? these were almost all civilian deaths, effectively genocide-depending on which side of the table youre on....

Not at all comparable in any way.
President Truman ordered the A-bombs dropped to END a war that was declared on us by Japan.
 
#37 ·
This was my point.



Not at all comparable in any way.
President Truman ordered the A-bombs dropped to END a war that was declared on us by Japan.
truman dropped the bomb to show the russians the us had one up on them. by the a-bomb incident came around, the war was over.... the field generals (lemay, macarthur, eisenhower) and the cheif of staff (leahy) all felt it was an unecessary act.

i wont argue which event was a greater atrocity, civiliztion is full of comparable events, however our society rarely is willing to highlight our own failings. since 1900 we have the following select events or gems of civilization:
extinction of the beothuks
2 world wars (trench warfare, invention of chemical warfare, nuclear warfare)
saddam and the kurds (didnt the us support saddam then?)
hitler
usama
khlmer rouge
tinnemen square
slavery
serbia
multpile africian conflicts


a quote comes to mind(anyone know the proper quote??):

the difference in tryanny and patriotism is the context in which the event is assess....
 
#36 ·
Why stop at charging the pilots, let's charge the commanding officer at the time. Heck, why not charge our current president with murder? didn't he just order the killing of osama?

Hate to say it but if you think Hitler and Hiroshima/Nagasaki are at in any way comparable, I have nothing left to say here.
 
#38 ·
wow, I was just reading what I had missed and there is def. some intelect here other than my truck is bigger than yours!
 
#39 ·
Yep. There are three sides to every story; he said, she said, and what really happened. That goes for war as well.
The book Flyboys gave me a much better understanding of what happened in Japan, as far as their mindset, approach to other countries, and what America did to them. The firebombing is something I was not EVEN aware of. And I know that this didn't start out talking about Japan, but they call it World War for a reason.
 
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