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what are the chances of the EPA ruining delete's

18K views 45 replies 21 participants last post by  mijdirtyjeep 
#1 ·
Just been reading over the past couple of days.. was going to delete my 16 but am coming more and more hesitant... Any thoughts? I am registered in a non emissions county but who knows how they are going to start checking trucks in the coming future.
 
#2 ·
Doesn't matter if they check it or not, it's illegal to delete it. That goes clear back to laws from the '70s, before the "coal rollers" that are blamed for all the new emissions even existed. The fines are $3750 per infraction. Also, it's illegal for a dealer to sell it if you happen to try to trade it in without the emissions equip working and intact. They can either deduct the cost to put it back, or make you do it before they take it. I dont care what anyone does one way or the other, but that's something to think about. If you do take that stuff off I'd stash it away so you can put it back on if need be.
 
#4 ·
They are already ruining it for us with tuning and deleting. There are many companies that have already conceded to the EPA, and I'm sure it's only going to get worse. As for deleting your truck, it's all on you in the end. I register my truck in Tennessee, where I'm a resident, and fortunately, they don't have smog inspections, much less vehicle inspections....YET! So basically, either delete her and take the risk, or enjoy the DEF refills, REGENS, and annoying trips to the dealership for DEF problems. Personally, I say "delete and forget", my truck is sitting in the garage with 69 miles on the ODO...and I'm going to delete her before 70 miles.
 
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#17 ·
Just so you know it depends on where you live in Tennessee Nashville and all the surrounding counties have emissions testing and I believe Knoxville and Memphis do as well. We have had it in Nashville since the late 80's or early 90's
 
#5 ·
Delete it! Just keep everything you remove incase it needs to be reinstalled in the future.
 
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#8 ·
I don't know who, if anyone enforces it. Don't care either, as it's not an issue for me where I live. I just wanted to let the OP know there is a risk associated with deleting, and it might be smart to save the parts if he does. Be a lot easier on the wallet to just bolt the parts back on later, rather than buy new if forced to when it's traded or sold. I do know that where I live some dealers check the emissions equip and there's some fine print in some trade agreements stating it's all intact and functioning.
 
#9 ·
That wasn't fair for me to post that, as if I didn't know. It's been illegal to modify any exhaust in any way, in IL, for decades. That hasn't stopped them, with Harley owners being the worst, closely followed by the Honda crowd in the early 2000's. Being that is a state law, it's rarely enforced unless someone is being a jerk and calling attention to their driving

My point is state laws are enforced by all police, federal emissions are not at this point. Maybe that will change if the epa continues to go unchecked
 
#10 ·
America was founded on broken laws....delete it and if EPA ever demands and enforces deletes being illegal, you'll most likely be grandfathered it...Boom Shakalaka! Most likely, they'll ban cows from farting before they ban modifying vehicles...
 
#13 ·
more like grandfatherd into having emissions... There is no way they would just say hey no worries if you already deleted... It is going to be whatever your truck came with if it happens.
 
#11 ·
Remember-- any modifications to the truck, GM can/will void the warranty--
 
#12 ·
thumb:I work for a GM dealer so I can get things through sometimes... plus im already tuned and leveled..
 
#14 · (Edited)
If you own a business this could hurt, a lot....

Monitoring Performance Diesel Emissions | THE SHOP


Both EPA and ARB are continually on the watch for “defeat devices” that disable an OEM emissions control device or system. Title II Section 203 of the Clean Air Act includes specific prohibitions for which the EPA can assess a penalty, including the manufacture, sale or installation of a part for a motor vehicle that bypasses, defeats or renders inoperative any emissions control device.

It even extends to anyone who is aware (or should be) that such a component is being sold, installed or used and to anyone causing the sale or installation. Under Section 205, penalties for violations can amount to $32,500 per instance, with each unit constituting a separate instance.
 
#15 ·
I don't think the EPA is going to get as far as they think they are. It's dead obvious they are all about filling their pockets. I'm glad they are currently sitting in the Supreme Court right now as I type this. They are getting out of hand with job killing laws. Not to mention, they are doing things they DO NOT have the power to do.
 
#16 ·
A shop in Southern WI recently got boned by the EPA, have to pay a lot of fines due to doing deletes. Issue is they didn't protect themselves due to having paper trails and canisters in their shop of deleted trucks. EPA is coming down hard on them but will make it "easier" on them if they supply more leads on shops doing the work. Anyone who owns a diesel performance shop better protect themselves because the EPA is slithering in on them without warning..
 
#20 ·
Trust me I am all for deleting all that junk..
But these shops and suppliers need to protect themselves in all ways possible.
For example when doing deletes, make sure all the parts go with the customer and make sure there is no papertrail at all.
The democratic government can do whatever they want folks, and the downfall is just starting.
 
#22 ·
I would hold off until after the Presidential election. Republican's are notorious for disliking the EPA and are just chomping at the bit to jerk the rug out from under them. Democrat's love the EPA and are all for protecting you from yourself. No offense to people who are members of either party but it's just the way I see it coming down too.

I know when I was looking for a used diesel truck the first thing I looked at was it modified for emissions. Those that I saw modified at a dealer I walked away from. Was I going to report the dealer to the EPA, no. I don't think I would even consider buying from a private party if it was modified to. It would be easier for a repair shop to work on one not modified because the repair manuals would be written to conform to one not modified. One modified who knows??? This is my perspective as a consumer.
 
#23 ·
I don't think the election is going to make a difference. Clean air and and the helping the environment is here to stay. I think I read that a deleted over the road truck puts out the same emissions as 29 trucks with emissions. Things like that means it's here to stay and will probably get worse. I don't think it's all bad, just wish it worked better. I'd just as soon my kids and grandkids inherited a world where they can go outside and take a deep breath as opposed to having to wear masks and stay inside when smog is too bad. My opinions are a lot different now that I have kids. 😊
 
#24 ·
Remember in 09 or whenever they changed cable boxes to digital? It took a few years and a backup date to even accomplish that. I pay my taxes, vote, and don't worry about the government impeding my decisions.
 
#27 ·
The very few local diesel shops around me arent really careful when it comes to deleting.
1 shop is more then willing to do it & another use to advertise (DPF delete & tuning done here) on their Facebook page & on their shop sign.
 
#28 ·
What are the chances of the EPA ruining delete's?

Well, since the EPA is why we have the emissions to start with...

Here's your sign.
 
#31 ·
The sad fact is there are way too many vehicles on the road, and many people are buying stuff they can't afford....
Reduce overall vehicle use. All vehicles have emissions, and there really isnt that many diesels to cause that much damage imo stateside.
The EPA can keep making demands in emissions, however the next gen oils for the newer engines are going to be thinner, and supposed to offer better protection? I am curious to see what the '17 engine will be. I know they will probably be reduced to a 30 weight, i will be shocked if it has a 15w-40 oil in it. The next gen engine will probably have 990 or 1K ft/lbs of torque, but they are going to have to get creative with the oil to make it work. I for one don't want to buy an engine that will grenade in a few years because of the environment. I think its time we move away from an engine that is 100 years old, nd start developing something new like TESLA PICKUPS, lol....electric motors produce torque #'s we can see in our wet dreams..
 
#35 ·
Point taken, but IMO EPA needs to do more to protect the end user from the problems if they want their efforts to be accepted. First they force unreliable technology on us, then put guns to our heads when it fails and we want it gone. Take a little of that enforcement push and place it towards quality control instead...
 
#37 ·
If you were here in the 80's you'd remember when they started emissions on gas vehicles. It didn't work good and there was 500 miles of vacuum line under the hood. Now it's fine. New technology always has problems initially, and always will.
 
#39 ·
I recall my Dads second El Camino, a 1973, first year of all the miles of vacuum hose. It was about 1980 or so Arizona had to implement an emissions program in Maricopa county where Phoenix is located, what a bloody mess here.

Shops all over the valley had been removing the miles of vacuum hose, catalytic converters, air pumps etc. for years just to make the engines run better and not have to repair emissions "stuff". Prices for emissions replacement parts went through the roof for about 4 years and shops were busy bringing cars back to factory standards.

My 82 has passed emissions for 20 years on the same engine at 80% less than maximum allowable every year, all the "stuff" is there and looks good, but, has been internally plugged, go figure....


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_emission_standards
 
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