Lift Pump Filtering - Page 7 - Chevy and GMC Duramax Diesel Forum
06-07 LBZ & LLY Performance Parts Discussion Discussion of Performance Parts For the 06-07.5 LBZ/LLY Duramax Trucks No Advertising

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post #61 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean E View Post
I was merely trying to explain that looking to see what your pressure is at idle does not give a good account of how restricted your fuel filters are.
Pulling the power feed on the LP, and then measuring vacuum at the stock filter head at idle, IS a usable indicator of filter restriction. (2"Hg [fresh] vs 4-5" [end of life] )
Whereas added pressure could mask a restriction at idle.

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Originally Posted by Dean E View Post
I guess I will never understand why GM decided to suck the fuel from the tank to the CP3. Especially with the rail pressures the injection runs at. They finally wised up on the new L5Ps. Sucking fuel from the tank thru the fuel filter (especially a clogged filter) to the CP3 is just dumb. I work on many jet aircraft fuel and hyd systems. You always supply a main delivery pump with head pressure. Dean
Not really. With the easy $$ made over the years on fuel filter changes, I doubt that's what they were going for in the change up.

They switched from Bosch to Denso to overcome the CP4 failures.
Bonus, that system utilizes a FWS filter/pump at the tank, with added ease in filter changes and positive pressure forward.

Also, comparing fuel draw pressure vs rail pressure....it's all about fuel volume, not pressure on the inlet. Not much of a comparison between 6psi on one side vs 26-30k on the rail.
Supply volume is key.
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post #62 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by D_R_C View Post
Connecting to the Edge is not as easy as just connecting it.
You need the Edge EAS expandable probe, maybe you already have this .
Pressure sensor and a Universal Expandable starter Kit.

Hereís the kit youíll need to add a fuel psi to your Edge, if you buy seperate itíll cost more.
https://edgeproducts.com/shop/eas-competition-kit

I have the non expandable probe, actually I have 2 spare edge probes which means Iíd have to buy this kit.
Under $300 for 2 gauges 2 pressure sensors all the wiring leaving my probe which sounded smarter for me and leaving my selections of pids on my CTS2.

On my LP, the sensor for my 5psi Amber warning light is connect to my LP.
The sensor for my LP to my gauge is T into the feed line to the engine.

The way Iím monitoring my gauges for when itís time to change my filters explained buy several people/companies I trust, works for me.
I do have the expandable setup from edge. I'll look more into the cost, I'm planning on upgrading to the CTS2 since my CTS has been having issues. It will be a bit but hopefully I'll get everything wired up in a few months when I'm back with the truck. Thank you for the information, I needed it.

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post #63 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook'em_Horns! View Post
Pulling the power feed on the LP, and then measuring vacuum at the stock filter head at idle, IS a usable indicator of filter restriction. (2"Hg [fresh] vs 4-5" [end of life] )
Whereas added pressure could mask a restriction at idle.




Exactly right. Every engine service I pop my Kennedy gauge on, and powerbrake it as hard as I dare with the lift pump shut off. If the restriction does'nt go below 5", I pop the fuse back in for the lift pump, watch the gauge run back up to 4psi of pressure, remove the gauge and slam the hood shut until the next service.

You dont need a dash full of gauges to monitor fuel filters...... its ridiculous.
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post #64 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 02:53 PM
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Perhaps....
But for the overachiever, DRC has covered every angle on it.

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post #65 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 02:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook'em_Horns! View Post
Pulling the power feed on the LP, and then measuring vacuum at the stock filter head at idle, IS a usable indicator of filter restriction. (2"Hg [fresh] vs 4-5" [end of life] )
Whereas added pressure could mask a restriction at idle.
I have the Kennedy psi/vac gauge that snaps on the test port where I can check both psi and vac if I feel the need to.
Switch off my AD to check vac, turn it back on to check psi.
The numbers you stated is what Kennedy told me to look for when checking.

Dan
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post #66 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-30-2018, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Hook'em_Horns! View Post
Perhaps....
But for the overachiever, DRC has covered every angle on it.
Yep, when your retired there’s so many things to think about doing to kill time and ignore the wiff and get away from the constant QVC chatting.

Dan
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post #67 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook'em_Horns! View Post
Pulling the power feed on the LP, and then measuring vacuum at the stock filter head at idle, IS a usable indicator of filter restriction. (2"Hg [fresh] vs 4-5" [end of life] )
Whereas added pressure could mask a restriction at idle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hook'em_Horns! View Post



Not really. With the easy $$ made over the years on fuel filter changes, I doubt that's what they were going for in the change up.

They switched from Bosch to Denso to overcome the CP4 failures.
Bonus, that system utilizes a FWS filter/pump at the tank, with added ease in filter changes and positive pressure forward.

Also, comparing fuel draw pressure vs rail pressure....it's all about fuel volume, not pressure on the inlet. Not much of a comparison between 6psi on one side vs 26-30k on the rail.
Supply volume is key.
You are making my point for me. If you read my post what I am trying to get out is about flow. Any fluid system, whether it be hyd or fuel will run more reliably when there is some head pressure on the pump. You don't need much but it does need to be (and stay) positive. This reduces the chance of cavitation and induction of air in the system. This also will increase the life of that pump. Of course too much head pressure can be detrimental also but maintaining a small amount of positive head pressure will ensure the system receives all the fluid it needs. When you look at all the fuel related isssues the Duramax has had over the years prior to the L5P release it is easy to say that it is better to push the fuel than to suck the fuel. Dean
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post #68 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 06:55 AM
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Maybe donít start off by saying gauges are not worthy for a easy way observing filter life.
Dragging out something that most donít care about, just keep it simple something like the dic ave mpg lie-o-meter, oil life.

Dan
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Last edited by D_R_C; 12-31-2018 at 07:21 AM.
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post #69 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 06:57 AM
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Quote:
When you look at all the fuel related isssues....
But you're not considering that the CP3 is designed to pull the fuel efficiently.

Correct. Positive pressure can be a solution...nowadays.

The problem with the fuel related issues that seem common on the Dmax, is not so much the vacuum draw, although it is a contributing factor.

We never had a problem (sucking air) with the design until we were forced to run ULSD vs LSD that the system (and the CP3) was designed for.

The lower sulfur formula doesn't play well with rubber components. As a result, they decay quicker and seals fail. Aeration of the supplied fuel is a result.

My comment/debate was in response to your criticism of GM not getting it right in the beginning. Which they did. It was the EPA's mandate that caused the problems later on, many years after the design was implemented.

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Last edited by Hook'em_Horns!; 12-31-2018 at 06:59 AM.
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post #70 of 73 (permalink) Old 12-31-2018, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean E View Post
I guess I will never understand why GM decided to suck the fuel from the tank to the CP3. Especially with the rail pressures the injection runs at.
Let me help you with that issue. One of the greatest enemies of a diesel engine (unlike the turbine engines you work on) as far as fuel is concerned is water, emulsified or free, with free water being more easily and efficiently separated from the fuel.

GM's stock fuel filter sits between the tank and the CP3 with the first side sucking the fuel from the tank, much like an inline fuel pump outside the tank. It is a combination Fuel Filter and Water Separator. The water separation works best in suction, before the water gets emulsified in the pump mechanism.

This same principal is used in the Lift Pumps so many add to their system which incorporate a WS and a FF. The WS is prior to the pump and the FF is after, making for the most efficient removal of water possible with today's technology.

And remember, as Hook said, this technology was developed long before the advent of the ULSD that was foist on the nation by the EPA, with little regard for the consequences to us, the owners of diesel vehicles.

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Last edited by 407driver; 12-31-2018 at 07:32 AM.
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