Chevy and GMC Duramax Diesel Forum banner

$3k in repairs so far, and haven't fixed the P0087

10K views 22 replies 13 participants last post by  dl0310 
#1 ·
I bought a 2009 Silverado 2500HD about 3 months ago from a private party (via a broker) to use primarily with a travel trailer. It's a small trailer (4100 lbs full) and I used to tow it with an XTerra which was not ideal.

The first time I used it to tow, I got the Change Fuel filter and it went into limp mode going up I-70 near Evergreen, CO. I wish I would have known at the time I could have been on my way with a simple ECU clear; I ended up spending $230 to get towed to Wal Mart where we stayed the night. I bought a bluetooth OBDII tool, reset the ECU and traveled another 2 hours to our destination with no issues.

I brought the truck to a diesel mechanic I found on Yelp with high reviews. I explained the story, that the fuel filter was replaced with the last oil change, but they said it was pulling vacuum and needed to be replaced (along with the 95C & 105C thermostats) for $800. I drove the truck a couple of times with no issues, but not towing. We left town last week for a trip from Denver to S. Oregon, got a late start, and stopped about 6 hours into the trip to sleep. The next day got a few hours down I-80 next to salt flats west of SLC before the issue started popping up again. I stopped to clear the code but it was coming right back. This is also a long stretch of road without any fuel stations and I didn't realize at this point that the truck was only getting about 5.6 mpg. The truck ran out of fuel, 12 miles east of Wendover.

While waiting for roadside assistance, I called ahead to see if I could get a diesel mechanic to look at it in the next town. A mobile mechanic offered to meet me in the parking lot of a Casino once I got the fuel delivered. After much longer than it should have taken, I met the mechanic where he told me about having the same issue and said it was likely the fuel pressure regulator which fixed the same problem he was having on his own Duramax. He and another tech were there for 5 hours trying to extract the old regulator before giving up. He gave me the part for $20 (it's a plug to replace the regulator), but I gave him an extra $40 for his effort. We drove another 3 hours to Winnemucca where I splurged on an actual RV hookup site. We drove 7 hrs the next day to Grants Pass, OR and didn't have the problem once.

Once we got to Grants Pass, we drove another hour for camping at Patrick Creek and finally got to relax for a couple of days and hang out with extended family. On Sunday, we packed up the trailer and the lodge across the street was willing to let me park my trailer for the planned excursion to the beach another 30 minutes away. Just as I finish parking the trailer, the bolt on the driver side pintman arm breaks. Monday morning I verify the shop I towed the truck to can fix the pitman arm, but they have no interest in looking at the P0087 issue. I drive the truck back to Grants Pass and just want it fixed, so I take it to the dealer. I was supposed to leave for home on Tuesday morning but they say the soonest it would be ready is Wednesday of Thursday afternoon.

The first call I got no issues were found. They call again saying they found the issue based on the bulletin regarding the collapsed fuel lines. I also had a transfer case and power steering hose leaks. The full cost for those repairs was $2014.69

Case 1 - Replace chassis fuel pipe : $654

Case 4 - Remove & Replace power steering hose, booster to gea(cuts off), remove & replace power steering hose pressure, pump to booster.
15295841 - Hose
20930009 - Hose
20832565 - Hose (This looks like a fuel line hose, is this necessary for a collapsed line?)
$845.74
Left Thursday afternoon and drove about 7 hours with no problems and stayed in Reno. The next day after an hour of driving, it comes back. I had to constantly clear the ECU errors to keep driving. The conditions for this issue are almost always the same.
1. Hot & Dry - This only ever seems to happen when it's >80F outside after an hour of driving
2. Bumpy - If I hit a bump or some rough road, I'm already anticipating it throwing that code on the next hill
3. Towing up a hill >60Mph

I monitored the live data of the OBD tool to see what the fuel rail pressure was. The tool I was reading with shows in psi. When the truck was fine, dring under load the pressure was between 18-22k and more steady. When I'm experiencing issues, the high end is more like 42k and I'll see more dips in the pressure. This may be normal, I just want to add as much data as possible. When we stopped for the night about 6 hours from home, I hit a huge dip pulling into the RV park at dusk. When I went to start it in the morning, it wouldn't start. Luckily I had learned from the episode where I ran out of fuel that i should check for air. Sure enough, there was a burst of air when I loosened the screw on top of the fuel filter. On the final leg of the trip, I continued to experience the issue especially as I drove down I-25. It was slow to start in the evening last night, I imagine there is more air in the fuel line.

Here's some more things to note. I troubleshoot networks for a living so the more data I have the better, even if it might not be relevant.

1. About half of the times I fill up, it's spilling a bit of fuel out of the top
2. Previous owner added a 40gallon tank
3. The fan that kicks on when my truck is about 2600 RPM sounds like a loud kazoo.
4. Random issues with electrical components
a. Mirrors try to move past where they can move, so they keep clicking for about 20 seconds
b. The seat always moves all of the ways back
c. Rear passenger lock sometimes doesn't initiate
d. Trailer brakes don't work, all lights work fine. 2 shops said it's fine but my trailer brakes work with every other vehicle I've tried it on
5. The best fuel economy I get is about 11 mpg. Goes to 6-7mpg when the truck is acting up

I can't afford to let a mechanic look at it and sell me fixes that won't resolve this issue. I'm a technical person but I don't have tools or space to do a bunch of work on this truck & if I do need to replace that fuel pressure regulator, it's going to need a tool I don't have to get it out. I have searched forums for weeks now and reading that some people never fix this is rather depressing. Any advice on where to go next would be appreciated.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I would do what they call a bottle test on the fuel pressure relief valve. They can get weak over time and drain the fuel rail when under load and cause the code. Just search fuel pressure relief valve bottle test and it will show you how. Pretty simple test.
 
#3 · (Edited)
I hate stories like this.....$900 for a couple of PS lines?!
Throwing a FPR at a low rail pressure issue...where do these 'techs' come from?

The collapsed fuel line is one of 6 different fuel system components that can fail over time and suck/draw air in thru leaks. So even though they charged 3x what it should cost for the repair, it's not a useless repair.
There was a TSB on it.

Fuel filter head may be leaking.
There's another flex line back at the tank, similar to the kink you had replaced on the front.
The FPRV could be leaking by (bottle test)
The fuel module in the tank could be leaking and sucking air at lower tank levels.
You may have an injector(s) worn, with a high return rate.
and finally,
the CP3 pump could be weak.....OR, you have several issues with the other items listed above leaking, and the poor pump can't keep up after the fuel heats up an hour into the trip.

Edit;
Add to this, user error.
The pump is gear driven. If you have a few 'slight' issues with some of the above items, using T/H and the Tap Shift to keep your RPMs up in the 1800-2200 range can also keep the fuel limp beast at bay.

If you're pulling and letting it lag down below 1800 and push on the skinny to speed up or climb, it'll throw a fuel limp on ya.
Keep those Rs up and see how it goes.
 
#5 ·
Bottle test is easy enough, that would have nice to prove/disprove the FRPV as an issue instead of sitting in a parking lot for 5 hrs.

Great to know about the RPMs!, the limp mode only ever happened when I had to slow down on a hill waiting for a car to pass, so I can pass the semi in front of me.
 
#6 ·
Hot fuel and collapsing lines will cause this. My 09 LMM had 0087 issues before I added my lift pump. You can put a single Kennedy lift pump (or double if tuned) easily on the frame rail in line with the fuel feed for a very easy, simple fix for this. Check to make sure no leaks after install by the fuel filter head and you'll be in good shape. i've towed heavy with this setup for over 20k miles including many mountain passes. Now I get a reduced power message ONLY when really hot, which I expect is high fuel temp. Also be sure to keep your tank over 1/2 full for mountains.
 
#7 ·
I'm getting a lot of 'worn fuel injector' answers and with 255k miles, seems pretty plausible. Is it worth it to have a fuel injector return flow test (as well as the enhanced)? I'm not really interested in just replacing them all; i'd rather just sell the truck and maybe buy something newer next year. It's about $1500 in labor and testing to have them pulled and bench tested. Even though the enhanced test is supposed to troubleshoot this specific issue, I've heard from two shops that they likely wouldn't see the issue without pulling the injectors.
 
#8 ·
IIRC, injector return rates can be checked while in the engine.
It's one of the 6 things that can drain the fuel rails to the point that the pump can't deliver the proper Desired FRP...which results in a fuel limp code thrown.

Note;
All of these potential 'leak' areas are greatly affected by hot fuel, which complicates a correct diagnosis...as it's not a constant.
Hot fuel....usually about an hour or so into a full fuel tank trip, pulling a 13' tall building in the heat of the day.

Make that same trip at night, when it's cooler, and......no problems.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jdwarren
#9 ·
Left Thursday afternoon and drove about 7 hours with no problems and stayed in Reno. The next day after an hour of driving, it comes back. I had to constantly clear the ECU errors to keep driving. The conditions for this issue are almost always the same.
1. Hot & Dry - This only ever seems to happen when it's >80F outside after an hour of driving
2. Bumpy - If I hit a bump or some rough road, I'm already anticipating it throwing that code on the next hill
3. Towing up a hill >60Mph

I monitored the live data of the OBD tool to see what the fuel rail pressure was. The tool I was reading with shows in psi. When the truck was fine, dring under load the pressure was between 18-22k and more steady. When I'm experiencing issues, the high end is more like 42k and I'll see more dips in the pressure. This may be normal, I just want to add as much data as possible.

Here's some more things to note. I troubleshoot networks for a living so the more data I have the better, even if it might not be relevant.

1. About half of the times I fill up, it's spilling a bit of fuel out of the top
2. Previous owner added a 40gallon tank
3. The fan that kicks on when my truck is about 2600 RPM sounds like a loud kazoo.
4. Random issues with electrical components
a. Mirrors try to move past where they can move, so they keep clicking for about 20 seconds
b. The seat always moves all of the ways back
c. Rear passenger lock sometimes doesn't initiate
d. Trailer brakes don't work, all lights work fine. 2 shops said it's fine but my trailer brakes work with every other vehicle I've tried it on
5. The best fuel economy I get is about 11 mpg. Goes to 6-7mpg when the truck is acting up

I can't afford to let a mechanic look at it and sell me fixes that won't resolve this issue. I'm a technical person but I don't have tools or space to do a bunch of work on this truck & if I do need to replace that fuel pressure regulator, it's going to need a tool I don't have to get it out. I have searched forums for weeks now and reading that some people never fix this is rather depressing. Any advice on where to go next would be appreciated.
You have raised a lot of issues and I will try to address some of them. P0087 is one of he most experienced DTC codes we see on diesel truck forums. The problem with these is that thee isn't just one or two causes of this problem, there are many causes. You need to get fuel from the tank to the engine without any air in the fuel. Air can easily be compressed; fuel can't, and when your trucks needs 24K lbs at the injector, there just can't be any air in the fuel. In the Duramax system, the fuel is sucked under vacuum from the tank all the way into theCP3 fuel pump located on the top of the engine. If there is the tiniest of leaks anywhere in that entire path, air will be sucked into the fuel line and you will have problems. Those 'tiniest of leaks' can be so small that even under 15lbs of pressure, they don't leak fuel out of the lines or components, but air leaks into the line. Once you get the clean, non-aerated full into the engine and to the injectors, the injectors need to work properly; they can't bypass too much fuel among other things.

Common problem points between fuel tank and CP3 pump:

1) The 'draw straw' (fuel pickup line in the tank) could be cracked somewhere along the straw and if this cracked line is above the fuel level, you will suck air into the fuel line. Solution is to fix the cracked draw straw.

2) The fuel moves thru the fuel lines from the tank through both metal and rubber lines to the fuel filter location in the engine compartment and the rubber portion of those lines sometimes can get sucked down and fuel flow is restricted. This is particularly a problem in hot weather, and high fuel system vacuum, like when you are pulling a trailer. One notable point of restriction is where the fuel line comes into the engine compartment on the driver's side of the engine and connects to metal lines. Just before this connection, the line often kinks and restricts fuel flow. I put a wide metal hose clamp on this line at that kink to force the hose to retain it's round configuration.

3) The fuel filter housing has several o-rings that can distort and wear out over time. A new housing complete with new fuel filter is about $135, like an hour's labor to change it out. Some people prefer to buy new 0-rings and gaskets for about $10, but those won't fix a faulty/cracked housing that sometimes happens. The water sensor on the bottom of the fuel filter can also leak vacuum, so check that to be sure it is tight.

4) There are several sections of fuel line from the back to the front and any of the joints can be a vacuum leak point.

5) Either replace your fuel tank cap or test it to make sure it vents (allows air into the tank) properly.

There was a person who had similar problem you did (I don't think he could get his engine to keep running after it started) and tried all the fixes above. It wasn't until he replaced all the lines from the tank to the fuel filter housing with one, single, fuel line, firmly clamped. He promptly sold the truck.

Some people, including me, prefer to add a 'lift pump' to their truck's fuel system. The lift pump is located near the fuel tank and pushes the fuel to the front under a small pressure (7-10 lbs) to eliminate the problems caused by leaky fuel lines. Many people buy pre-engineered kits, adds additional filtration, very good, fairly expensive. On the other hand, I built mine from components and ended up spending about $200. It has been rock solid reliable since installed in 2010. I carry a spare pump ($28 on Amazon), just in case of failure of the existing pump.

My suggested solution for your problem would be a lift pump, home built, and a new fuel filter housing with filter, and a new fuel tank cap. I also suggest that you look at your driving habit and see if there is room for adjustment. Always use tow haul when towing, all hills in 4th or 5th gear, min rpm of 2000, 2400 or more on steeper climbs like going to Eisenhower tunnel. You might need to slow down going up hill. When approaching big hills, fill your tank with fresh (cool) fuel.

Left Thursday afternoon and drove about 7 hours with no problems and stayed in Reno. The next day after an hour of driving, it comes back. I had to constantly clear the ECU errors to keep driving. The conditions for this issue are almost always the same.
1. Hot & Dry - This only ever seems to happen when it's >80F outside after an hour of driving
2. Bumpy - If I hit a bump or some rough road, I'm already anticipating it throwing that code on the next hill
3. Towing up a hill >60Mph
I don't think I've ever heard anyone mention bumpy or rough road as a contributing cause of this problem. Hot and dry, up hill > 60, definitely.

I monitored the live data of the OBD tool to see what the fuel rail pressure was. The tool I was reading with shows in psi. When the truck was fine, driving under load the pressure was between 18-22k and more steady. When I'm experiencing issues, the high end is more like 42k and I'll see more dips in the pressure. This may be normal, I just want to add as much data as possible.
I've never heard of anyone having such a high fuel rail pressure. Maybe you meant 24K?? The P0097 does happen at high fuel rail pressures, then the fuel supply fails to sufficiently keep up that pressure, it falls, and you the get the code.

1. About half of the times I fill up, it's spilling a bit of fuel out of the top - Yes, the foamy diesel is a problem near the top of the tank, just let foam subside and go slow
2. Previous owner added a 40gallon tank - Is this a fuel tank? Any involvement with this tank the the P0097 problem?
3. The fan that kicks on when my truck is about 2600 RPM sounds like a loud kazoo. When the fan locks up, it can be quite loud. Check your fan shroud to make sure it is mounted firmly, no bolts missing. Look for marks on the fan to indicate it is making contact with something.
4. Random issues with electrical components These can be frustrating, but to simplify, the problem is usually power or grounds or the 5V reference circuit for sensors.
a. Mirrors try to move past where they can move, so they keep clicking for about 20 seconds Same
b. The seat always moves all of the ways back Same
c. Rear passenger lock sometimes doesn't initiate Same
d. Trailer brakes don't work, all lights work fine. 2 shops said it's fine but my trailer brakes work with every other vehicle I've tried it on. Do you have the integrated brake controller in your truck, or aftermarket? If integrated (ITBM), is your ABS light on the dash lit up? If the ABS has any failure, that will stop the ITBM for all braking effort. Fix the ABS problem and you will likely have trailer brakes again. The ITBC Relay is bad, this will also cause a no brake system. This could be LOTS and LOTS of things, not difficult to fix but very difficult to figure out what to fix.
5. The best fuel economy I get is about 11 mpg. Goes to 6-7mpg when the truck is acting up.Another new one here. I have gotten that kind of mileage but only when driving directly into a very stiff (30+ MPH) wind. My 5th wheel is over 13' high and has a very flat front, not very aerodynamic. If your injectors were bypassing lots of fuel back to the tank, your speedo could calculate high fuel use, but the fuel would still be in the tank. You ran out of fuel. Not sure I see a connection.

Definitely look up the fuel bypass test mentioned preciously. This is a simple test that looks at the total volume of bypassed fuel returning to the tank. Remove a line or two, capture the bypassed fuel when cranking the engine, see how much it is. If too much fuel is collected it means that one (no specific injector information) or more injectors must be tested to see which ones are bad. Your problem could be bad injectors, or a bad CP3 pump. Sometimes tuning can help with this if needed.

In conclusion, I THINK the problem could likely be solved for $500 or so, doing the work yourself: fuel filter head,lift pump, fuel cap.
 
#10 ·
I consistently have a DIC 'gallons used' error whenever a P0087 fuel limp hits.
And this also affects MPG too, with a substantial drop.

Yes, it's never correct....by a gallon or so. But anytime within a full tank's use that a fuel limp hits, it'll be 5-6 gallons or more off from actual on a refill. It didn't leak out, but it dumps somewhere.
 
#12 ·
Had persistent p0087 code when towing heavy in hot weather up-hill on my 2007 LBZ. Went thru all the easier fixes including new fuel lines, race plug for PRV, lift pump, even a Kennedy tune to reduce incidence of limp- all to no avail until I replaced the injectors, which were the culprit (they were returning too much fuel).
Truck runs great again. This youtube video explains p0087 code troubleshooting the best:
 
  • Like
Reactions: corneredge
#13 ·
I’ve run into this problem every summer since probably 2007. In my experience, if it has more that 120k miles, it’s the injectors or delivery lines 75% and the fpr 25. Always when towing during the heat of the day. In fact I expect at least 3 this month.
 
#14 ·
I think I have read other topics on injectors, but a quick couple questions...

1. In the effort to save money, is it OK to replace just the problematic injectors? I've read to do all 8 but we are talking $6.5k in just parts.

2. I've seen the YouTube videos on rebuilding the injector. This seems like another way to save some money with my own sweat. What is the downfall to this?
 
#19 ·
I think I have read other topics on injectors, but a quick couple questions...

1. In the effort to save money, is it OK to replace just the problematic injectors? I've read to do all 8 but we are talking $6.5k in just parts.
Yes.
Not sure on your $$ amount....they're $360-$375 (depending on qty purchased) for new OE @LDS, not reman. 25mo warranty
Because of the labor involved with the 1st gen Dmax, it was recommended to do all 4 on the side you had opened up.
Later gen, individual worn injector replace is fine. But with high mileage wear, if one is out of spec on return amounts, there's probably more too.

You'd need a return rate test to determine injector health, more than 80ml or how close to that are the others, to decide on full set or not.

2. .....What is the downfall to this?
Meh, leave it to the Bosch pros, with the equip to evaluate, test and tune.
Stuck injector isn't a piston happy event.



......I was a little intimidated after hearing my buddy tell me how long it took to replace his LBZ injectors and they had more tools and three guys working on it.
Popping the hood and gazing over the cluster**** of it all, it's intimidating.
However, removing the inner fender liners and either lifting to open up the wheel well more, or removing the tire....leaves a BIG gaping whole on each side that reaches almost everything easily for a variety of repairs.

Pick up a pair of push-pin pliers, under $10.

Here's a decent video of it all (disregard his "passenger side / Driver's side" dyslexia).
@ 5:10 you can see the return line for the 4 injectors on the pass side....where you'd remove each clip on one and attach a line to measure return. 80ml or less is good.

"....I just have a firm belief, you take enough bolts apart, something's going to fall off...."
I like that ^^. :teehee
 
#16 ·
seehad fuel pressure regulator

Seehad- My dealer wanted $541 for a fuel pressure regulator made by Bosch. Bosch doesn't make it. It is made in China. I bought the same one, aqua o-ring & all for $24.88

Once in hand the battle has only begun. You have to take everything off the top front of the engine to find the FPR up front. It is mounted from back to front by 3 screws. They are T-25 star screws. The space available is very tight as are the screws. I used a high quality socket with T-25 mounted on it to get them out. It is a bitch of a job-4.5 hour book rate, but it can be done in 3 hours or less. You attested to the fact it isn't easy. this job normally isn't for first time mechanics. I will warn you that the wires that connect it are small and easily broken. Also, the insulation is a fav rat food. Sometimes the problem is the wires or wiring harness, not the FPR, so carefully check before you put it back together. Good luck!

Sometimes a guy has to wonder why he bought a diesel in the first place. My buddy just put a short block in his Ram 3500. Broke a piston when injector cratered.
 
#17 ·
Lot's of terrific advice here, thank you all. I've gone through a range of emotions with this truck but I've gone too far to give up and lose a ton of money in the process. I'll keep building up my tool collection rather than take it to the shop to save some money that has been bleeding on this truck. With what I've spent so far, I'll be avoiding the problem conditions and work on doing this myself during the "off-season". I was a little intimidated after hearing my buddy tell me how long it took to replace his LBZ injectors and they had more tools and three guys working on it.
 
#18 ·
In my opinion these trucks are easy to work on. Just very time consuming to work on. I did headgaskets on my lly and used nothing more then basic hand tools. There is no specialty tools to do anything. Just do a lot a research and dont short cut the task. When people run into issues is when they fo things as cheap as possible and then later complain of issues and they have to pay to do again. Pay for good parts and you will be fine.
 
#21 ·
Ive got a question guys..........

if his balance rates are good, would that tend to indicate the return rate is also OK, or is it possible to have good balance rates and an excessive return rate?

Thanks
 
#22 ·
Balance rates can be an indicator of an issue, but isn't a tell-all for leakage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dl0310
#23 ·
I am following. I have a stock 08 with a air dog lift pump and i am getting the p0087 while I am towing with about a 1/2 tank of fuel..yes filters are new and good fuel...fuel temps 219 and the truck was in TH 5 gear at 64 mph accelerating up a small hill on 95 (va/nc) and it the rpelace fuel filter went from 100 to 0....the balance rates for all injectors are good and had no issues with short hauls around town and the demand and actual fuel rail pressures are really close.

I am planning to replace the fuel rail relief valve and the two soft lines on the drivers side. What else should i look for?
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top