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2 oddball questions on trailer backup camera

16K views 30 replies 16 participants last post by  269_Bob 
#1 ·
I want to add a camera to the rear of my 26' stick/tin travel trailer behind my 2019 Dmax, with the camera powered by the tail light circuit. There are many horror stories of aftermarket systems not working well, especially while underway. I can't afford to experiment with something this costly, so I just decided to ask the (apparent) leading manufacturers for recommendations for my specific set-up and distanced.

While both companies gave me recommendations on the systems that should work for the length, etc, both had unusual and different words of caution about the quirks in the wiring system on 2019 GM products.

Furion said, in part: "The only additional thing to keep in mind, is that you have a 2019 GM vehicle which restricts power through their 7-way, not allowing an adequate power to function any 12V accessories, including cameras, if you decide to power them using the tow vehicle, instead of an on-board RV battery. I see that you have mentioned using the running lights for power, which would require the adapter for the 2019 GM. The adapter that we have that resolves the GM power issue can be found at the web address below. " (the adaptor is a pigtail between the truck and trailer 7 pin connectors)
https://furrion.com/collections/all...ision-s-trailer-7-way-cable-with-power-switch

ASA / Voyager said, in part: "Since you are using a 2019 GM product, you will need a filter to filter out the PWM (pulse width modulation) they're using. Our products, Furrion's products, and all other systems would be affected by PWM. This filter will remedy this and allow you to use our products with your new truck" (oddly enough, the filter they recommend is a link to Amazon, not ASA).
Filter:
https://www.amazon.com/ASA-Electron...X0DER&qid=1579618917&s=merchant-items&sr=1-21


I asked Furion if their concern about not enough power being available had to do with the PWM noise in the light circuit (as highlighted by ASA), and they replied that their concern was something different from PWM.

I can maybe understand some feedback noise in the tail light circuit to determine when bulbs are out, but I can't imagine the tail light circuit not having enough power to run a camera.

Has anyone run into either the tail light circuit noise, or the not-enough-power-available-to-run-the-camera issue, when adding a camera to a travel trailer???????????
 
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#3 ·
I already have a back up camera on the truck. What I am adding is a camera on the back of the travel trailer.
 
#5 ·
GM has an auxiliary wireless camera for the back of the trailer that hooks to your existing camera system, assuming you have that option.
 
#4 ·
I have a 2017 and have a Haloview wired to my clearance lights with no issues. I don't know about the tail light circuit and I don't know if they've changed the wiring between 2017 and 2019 but there are numerous variations in tail lights on trailers whether they are LED or incandescent and the camera uses very little power so I don't see why there would be an issue.
 
#7 ·
I think GM uses PWM with feedback to determine if there is something attached to the circuit.

The first pigtail is probably a bridge circuit built to take power from the 12v constant power supply in the truck and route it to the brake light circuit for the camera. The second looks like its either a noise filter or small capacitor in the circuit to minimize or eliminate the PWM signal to the camera.

If your trailer is wired for a camera, check to see if the hot is from the onboard battery. If it is, then you are probably good. If not, try checking the power supply with an AC volt meter. IIRC the AC volt meter may pick up voltage if there is a PWM signal as its an on/off signal or variation in voltage in the circuit.

Depending on where you plan on putting the camera, it may be possible to tap into a hot wire for an overhead light. Not having a camera on my trailer or looking at the wiring, I don't know what would trigger it to come on and that may be where the brake light signal comes into play.
 
#8 ·
I want to add a camera to the rear of my 26' stick/tin travel trailer behind my 2019 Dmax, with the camera powered by the tail light circuit. There are many horror stories of aftermarket systems not working well, especially while underway. I can't afford to experiment with something this costly, so I just decided to ask the (apparent) leading manufacturers for recommendations for my specific set-up and distanced.

While both companies gave me recommendations on the systems that should work for the length, etc, both had unusual and different words of caution about the quirks in the wiring system on 2019 GM products.

Furion said, in part: "The only additional thing to keep in mind, is that you have a 2019 GM vehicle which restricts power through their 7-way, not allowing an adequate power to function any 12V accessories, including cameras, if you decide to power them using the tow vehicle, instead of an on-board RV battery. I see that you have mentioned using the running lights for power, which would require the adapter for the 2019 GM. The adapter that we have that resolves the GM power issue can be found at the web address below. " (the adaptor is a pigtail between the truck and trailer 7 pin connectors)
?
Seeing that there is a 12V supply to charge the emergency break away battery, I see plenty of power going to the trailer, but as mentioned cameras draw little amps... Get one and try it.... Doesn't work, then return it...
 
#10 ·
Jlawles, thanks for the comment and i agree. Just wondering if others had run into this. I was particularly confused with the claim the light circuit would not have enough power to supply what surely is fractional amps to a camera.

My trailer is not prewired for camera. If you power camera from house battery then it is on all the time, even when disconnected and camping.

The typical aftermarket taps into the top middle clearance light in back and then you use parking lights for the on off switch. Furiom kits include a new light fixture with pigtail that goes on the base of existing fixture.
 
#11 ·
I am assuming you are talking about a wireless system. The tail light circuit would include the running lights at the top of the trailer and that is where most people mount their camera. They tap into the center running light (usually) for power. Then the camera is powered whenever the parking lights / headlights are on. The power draw is very low. I have the Haloview mc7108 on my trailer and the draw is 240 mA normal (daytime) and 380 mA when the night vision is working. (got those specs from the place I bought the system). I doubt other systems are very much different. So even if the two separate systems (truck and camera wiring) somehow interact, I doubt that such a small draw would trigger any problems.

The adapter Furrion wants to sell looks like a plug for a wired system that would be mounted at the rear of the truck. The filter that ASA links to is for connecting the camera to the factory OEM radio - - which would require a wired system, also. If you are talking about a wired system, Furrion's and ASA's remarks may make sense. But a wireless system by-passes any OEM truck wiring so I don't think it matters.
 
#12 ·
GASTAN - an interesting explanation - thanks. YES, I'm looking at a wireless system.

Looks like both Gastan and Fr8erfxr have Haloview systems. I've had interesting correspondence with Haloview's factory technical people somewhere in the Orient). Even they tell me their system will NOT give me trouble free reception while underway. They propose a system they just came out with that has a hard-wired antenna across the roof of the trailer up to the front of the trailer to provide near-line-of-site reception with the monitor in the cab. They say that's the only way to get trouble free reception underway, short of a hard-wired system.

SO, Gastan and Fr89erfxr::: I'm really curious how long your trailers are, what is material of trailer construction (tin vs fiberglass), and how the Haloview systems are working while underway?

(and which model Fr8erfxr has).

Thanks much!
 
#13 ·
SO, Gastan and Fr89erfxr::: I'm really curious how long your trailers are, what is material of trailer construction (tin vs fiberglass), and how the Haloview systems are working while underway?
My TT is fiberglass - about 21 feet overall, so the total length from camera to monitor inside the cab is around 32-33 feet. Haven't actually measured it. The performance has been excellent. I have never had it stutter or drop out even for a second. The crispness and color on the monitor rivals the tele in my house. I hang my monitor from the rear view mirror so my view is just as if I wasn't pulling anything.

If the siding on you trailer were to interfere with the signal, Haloview sells a 16 foot antenna extension that would move it that much closer to your rig. $12-$13. Most others probably have something similar. Heck, if that wasn't enough you could buy two of them and splice them together and get 30 feet - - cut one at the antenna (leave the connector), cut the connector off the other (leave the antenna attached), and splice and shrink rap them. Install it on the roof with Eternabond tape for security and water proofness. Then you would have the antenna right on the leading edge of the TT, looking straight down at the truck.
 
#14 ·
With furrion, it is low voltage. My 2021 Chevy Silverado 3500hd Ltz will not run the cameras either Where my old 2014 GMC Sierra 3500had worked just fine. I have ordered the furrion fr74fr adapter and will see if that fixes it.


I want to add a camera to the rear of my 26' stick/tin travel trailer behind my 2019 Dmax, with the camera powered by the tail light circuit. There are many horror stories of aftermarket systems not working well, especially while underway. I can't afford to experiment with something this costly, so I just decided to ask the (apparent) leading manufacturers for recommendations for my specific set-up and distanced.

While both companies gave me recommendations on the systems that should work for the length, etc, both had unusual and different words of caution about the quirks in the wiring system on 2019 GM products.

Furion said, in part: "The only additional thing to keep in mind, is that you have a 2019 GM vehicle which restricts power through their 7-way, not allowing an adequate power to function any 12V accessories, including cameras, if you decide to power them using the tow vehicle, instead of an on-board RV battery. I see that you have mentioned using the running lights for power, which would require the adapter for the 2019 GM. The adapter that we have that resolves the GM power issue can be found at the web address below. " (the adaptor is a pigtail between the truck and trailer 7 pin connectors)
Camera System 7-Way Adapter Cable with Power Switch

ASA / Voyager said, in part: "Since you are using a 2019 GM product, you will need a filter to filter out the PWM (pulse width modulation) they're using. Our products, Furrion's products, and all other systems would be affected by PWM. This filter will remedy this and allow you to use our products with your new truck" (oddly enough, the filter they recommend is a link to Amazon, not ASA).
Filter:
Amazon.com: GM Camera Harness - PWMCEC


I asked Furion if their concern about not enough power being available had to do with the PWM noise in the light circuit (as highlighted by ASA), and they replied that their concern was something different from PWM.

I can maybe understand some feedback noise in the tail light circuit to determine when bulbs are out, but I can't imagine the tail light circuit not having enough power to run a camera.

Has anyone run into either the tail light circuit noise, or the not-enough-power-available-to-run-the-camera issue, when adding a camera to a travel trailer???????????
 
#18 ·
if you have an ac outlet plug into that. use a DC converter from there. there is not a whole of juice coming from that wire your wanting to use. DC sucks exponentially with distance. remember your electricity is not originating from the back of the truck.

might be better off with a rechargeable battery powered product
 
#27 ·
I want to add a camera to the rear of my 26' stick/tin travel trailer behind my 2019 Dmax, with the camera powered by the tail light circuit. There are many horror stories of aftermarket systems not working well, especially while underway. I can't afford to experiment with something this costly, so I just decided to ask the (apparent) leading manufacturers for recommendations for my specific set-up and distanced.

While both companies gave me recommendations on the systems that should work for the length, etc, both had unusual and different words of caution about the quirks in the wiring system on 2019 GM products.

Furion said, in part: "The only additional thing to keep in mind, is that you have a 2019 GM vehicle which restricts power through their 7-way, not allowing an adequate power to function any 12V accessories, including cameras, if you decide to power them using the tow vehicle, instead of an on-board RV battery. I see that you have mentioned using the running lights for power, which would require the adapter for the 2019 GM. The adapter that we have that resolves the GM power issue can be found at the web address below. " (the adaptor is a pigtail between the truck and trailer 7 pin connectors)
Camera System 7-Way Adapter Cable with Power Switch

ASA / Voyager said, in part: "Since you are using a 2019 GM product, you will need a filter to filter out the PWM (pulse width modulation) they're using. Our products, Furrion's products, and all other systems would be affected by PWM. This filter will remedy this and allow you to use our products with your new truck" (oddly enough, the filter they recommend is a link to Amazon, not ASA).
Filter:
https://www.amazon.com/ASA-Electron...X0DER&qid=1579618917&s=merchant-items&sr=1-21


I asked Furion if their concern about not enough power being available had to do with the PWM noise in the light circuit (as highlighted by ASA), and they replied that their concern was something different from PWM.

I can maybe understand some feedback noise in the tail light circuit to determine when bulbs are out, but I can't imagine the tail light circuit not having enough power to run a camera.

Has anyone run into either the tail light circuit noise, or the not-enough-power-available-to-run-the-camera issue, when adding a camera to a travel trailer???????????
I have a 2021 KZ and all 3 cameras worked fine with my 2017 3500 .
Now on my 2021 3500 no go , so I ran power from the batteries on the KZ with a switch and relay for the running lights and they all work perfectly , you can get to the running lights in the box your 7 pin cable goes into. EZ done . now you can also run your trailer lights while its not hooked up to your truck.
 
#28 ·
This is an interesting thread. Maybe this will shed some light on PWM and how it works. Seeing a few people asking why the 2020 and newer lighting circuit will not function there aux cameras like it did on there older trucks pre 2020. You are correct in assuming there is plenty of power there to supply the camera, what has changed is how the power is presented with Pulse Width Modulation (PWM), you have power but your ground changes which in turn changes the voltage signal. PWM can be used for a variety of applications from communication of devices or power control and depending on what type of device is used will depend on what the outcome is, in this case power is the discussion.


Dc voltage is represented by the below symbol. For the sake of illustration of PWM function. If you think of the top line as your 12vdc supply (battery +) and the bottom line as your ground (battery -)if you put a meter on the positive and negative you will get 12 vdc. But with PWM the 12vdc is supplied constantly but the computer controls the bottom (ground) line by varying it's pulse, if the dashes are like you see them now you get 12vdc, if the dashed double in space (50% cycle) you get 6vdc, by varying the space of the ground you can achieve any voltage from 0 to max supply voltage, by doing this a relay is not needed to cycle to turn on items, the vehicles computer simple changes the PWM signal to make a light come on or blink. This won't give you a clean 12vdc reading on your meter and won't run your camera or most likely won't give a active signal to turn it on.

Rectangle Font Pattern Facade Window


The resolve is like others have mentioned a modified 7 way plug that I'm guessing reroutes the aux power into the circuit but that will most likely drive the truck system crazy as indicated in an earlier post, but using the trailer battery or using the 12 aux power from the 7 way plug and having the camera on when connected would work. This is also how the truck knows the trailer is connected, it will lightly pulse the circuit and read the feedback to know something is there but the pulse is so weak that you may actually see a very faint flicker of a light or you will never notice it at all, when it does the low pulse if a scope was connected i bet it is pulsing less then a 1/4 vdc, just enough for the computer to see it.

Hope this helps with the understanding a bit and doesn't confuse more.
 
#30 ·
I believe someone has done the echo master system on an 18. Try kowclub as I think he did camera's on his hot shot truck.
 
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