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Hey,

I am looking at possibly moving from my 2007 2500, to a 2018. When I was reading through the brochure I spotted something odd in the 5th wheel weight guide. For the 2500 Duramax 4x4 Crew Standard Bed... They are showing lower numbers than the gaser!! Even stranger for the 2500 Duramax 4x4 Crew Long Bed they are showing lower rating for the 5th wheel over conventional towing. Looked back to the 2017 brochure... Same thing. Found a 2015 brochure and those numbers look right.

So what gives? Are the 2017/2018 really rated like this? 'dunno; I would (and probably should) have to get a 3500 for my 5th wheel.

 

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Here is what I am talking about...
 

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Looks legit. Duramax engine weighs more than the 6.0, that’s why there is a difference in the payload ratings.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Payload looks right, I would agree. But the 5th wheel trailer weight does not. The Duramax capacity seemed to go up 100 pounds, except these 2 where they severally dropped.

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But we are also taking gas vs diesel.

Now that I look at it... Looks like Ford's numbers are different too. Ram doesn't seem to be much different.

I wonder if has to do with the SAE J2807 standard that manufacturers are starting to adopt.

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That's one reason a went to a 3500hd single wheel. I visit cali once a year at least. Since they are sue happy and the CHP pay attention to double towing and lengths, if by chance an accident were to happen I am sure if you were overweight or length they would make life suck.
All of my past 2500hd's towed great and had plenty for my 17k load. Not sure why they derated them, glad I noticed and went to a 3500hd.
 

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That's one reason a went to a 3500hd single wheel. I visit cali once a year at least. Since they are sue happy and the CHP pay attention to double towing and lengths, if by chance an accident were to happen I am sure if you were overweight or length they would make life suck.

All of my past 2500hd's towed great and had plenty for my 17k load. Not sure why they derated them, glad I noticed and went to a 3500hd.


Main reason I went with 3/4 ton. It all comes down to legality in the end. If something were to happen and you exceeded your ratings, you are not goin to be sittin pretty.
 

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Get a 3500 SRW.
In 2017 they lowered the ratings on the 3/4 ton to a dismal number.

Age old argument is that yeah my 2500 can still tow what ever you put behind it and for the most part there is some truth in that...however if you are going by sticker, legality in towing etc you should look at something that a little more stout in the rating department.

Remember conventional towing will only likely have a tongue weight of 10% of the trailer. A 10,000# travel trailer will likely be 800-1100# where as my 5er is stilling at 1500# (15%) and to reach that on a conventional method you could go up to 15,000# in theory. With that in mind one could see at some point the conventional trailer towing will be rated (higher) than the 5er. Payload is the limiting factor in all of this. Just because you "can" doest mean you should.

At the end of the day more is better even through the argument behind it seems to be garbage when looking at it at surface level. if you end up with a SRW your ride will likely not suffer at all, youll have the payload and plenty of room for growth.

Glad I have a 2015 with a 17500 rating or some sh!t like that and a payload of 2300LB
 

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I just went thru this after the purchase of a 39.7 foot, 12500# fifth wheel. My 2015 2500 was a high country with a max payload of 2229 # Pin weight on my 5er was right at 3100# Dry. My 2500 had no issues pulling it but hit a bump and all hell would brake loose. Could I have added higher rated tires, another spring pack and different shocks, I could have but I decided to be on the safe side and get a 2018 Silverado 3500 DRW with max payload of north of 4700#. The dually handles the 5er like a boss!
 

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I just went thru this after the purchase of a 39.7 foot, 12500# fifth wheel. My 2015 2500 was a high country with a max payload of 2229 # Pin weight on my 5er was right at 3100# Dry. My 2500 had no issues pulling it but hit a bump and all hell would brake loose. Could I have added higher rated tires, another spring pack and different shocks, I could have but I decided to be on the safe side and get a 2018 Silverado 3500 DRW with max payload of north of 4700#. The dually handles the 5er like a boss!
Same thing for me. I had an '11 2500hd 4x4 crew cab short bed. My 5th wheel is advertised at 13000 with pin at 2270 DRY. The 2500 had no issues pulling but bottomed out without bags. After adding bags the only problem I had was worrying about the WHAT IF'S. My 6yr old grandson and my wife deserve to be as safe as I can make them. We now ride in a '18 3500hd DRW. I feel better and the new B&W hitch took away all the noise...
 

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Couldn’t agree more on the dually. I didn’t feel comfortable with the kids in my 13 2500hd and I’m no noob at towing or big trucks.
 

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The payload rating is mostly based on the load rating for the tires. Easiest way for the truck manufacturers to increase the payload is by adding two more wheels at the rear. More complicated if they had to deal with 3800 lb. load rated tires along with the 2400 lb rated ones and even worse if they used 19.5 wheels and tires with their 4800 lb. load capacity.

Only difference between a DRW and SRW is the addition of the two wheels so instead of 2 times 2400 minus the weigh of the rear of the truck it goes to 4 times 2400 minus the weight of the truck. My 2500 came with a 2800 lb. payload rating which was as high and actually higher than the 3500 SRW trucks I looked at on the dealers' lots. I added a set of SuperSprings and increased the payload capacity to 4,000 lbs. and this made for a much more stable truck with a load. When the factory springs were being overworked there was a lot more sway and the shock absorbers were less effective as well.

When doing long trips of several thousand miles I will count the number of SRW and DRW trucks pulling 5th wheel trailers. Consistently I find that more than 80% are SRW trucks. It is primarily the people with 5th wheel horse trailers that go to DRW (and forego 4WD).

What does improve the ride significantly is using a shock absorbing kingpin box like the ones from TrailAir. This will smooth out the ride far more than adding two more wheels at the rear axle.

Only in Canada do the feds inspect and verify GCWR for vehicles using the factory sticker. Up there I would be towing with a Ford F-450 or maybe a Freightliner M2.

As a side note the GCWR of the newer trucks (2500 and 3500 models from GM, Ford, and Ram) means having a Class A commercial driver license to legally drive them in the USA (as their CGWR exceeds 26,000 pounds).
 

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Only in Canada do the feds inspect and verify GCWR for vehicles using the factory sticker. Up there I would be towing with a Ford F-450 or maybe a Freightliner M2.
Is there any information available on this online? I've looked and couldn't find anything definitive. My wife and I will be traveling to Ontario with our camper this winter and I want to know what will be inspected. I'm definitely within all the limits with my current configuration, but I'd like to know regardless.

As a side note the GCWR of the newer trucks (2500 and 3500 models from GM, Ford, and Ram) means having a Class A commercial driver license to legally drive them in the USA (as their CGWR exceeds 26,000 pounds).
That's only true if you're pulling a trailer in excess of 10,000 lbs and the combined GVWRs of the truck and trailer exceed 26,000 lbs. And RVs/campers/etc. are exempt anyway. But if you were pulling a flatbed or enclosed trailer meeting the above-mentioned specs you would technically need a class A.
 

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No need to worry with a RV, no need to scale or stop at them. DOT leaves RVers alone, you wont have a problem. I tow a 40ft toyhauler behind my 2500, and have had no issues so far with DOT or the truck controlling the load. the difference for me to switch to a DRW for 6 times a year just wasn't worth it to me. I am not over my tow limit, or my tires and axle limits, but definitely over my GVWR of 2600 lbs
 
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No need to worry with a RV, no need to scale or stop at them. DOT leaves RVers alone, you wont have a problem. I tow a 40ft toyhauler behind my 2500, and have had no issues so far with DOT or the truck controlling the load. the difference for me to switch to a DRW for 6 times a year just wasn't worth it to me. I am not over my tow limit, or my tires and axle limits, but definitely over my GVWR of 2600 lbs
I see you're from Canada, and I've heard that up there that RVs can/will be stopped by DOT and subject to the limitations implied by the door sticker. Is that true? My wife is from Toronto and we are planning to start taking our camper up there instead of dealing with Airbnb idiocy, and we are considering an upgrade to a fifth wheel that might put me slightly over my RAWR (of course, this number is based on the OEM tires, which I would upgrade for higher load capacity) and GVWR. Any insight is much appreciated!
 

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Hey,

I am looking at possibly moving from my 2007 2500, to a 2018. When I was reading through the brochure I spotted something odd in the 5th wheel weight guide. For the 2500 Duramax 4x4 Crew Standard Bed... They are showing lower numbers than the gaser!! Even stranger for the 2500 Duramax 4x4 Crew Long Bed they are showing lower rating for the 5th wheel over conventional towing. Looked back to the 2017 brochure... Same thing. Found a 2015 brochure and those numbers look right.

So what gives? Are the 2017/2018 really rated like this? 'dunno; I would (and probably should) have to get a 3500 for my 5th wheel.

Around this point in time the U.S. truck manufacturers started to comply with the J2807 standards. Toyota started doing this years earlier. It lowered the numbers for the trucks and the new numbers more accurately reflect real world performance.

There is also in large part the marketing game that is being played. When Ford says its new trucks can tow 1000 lbs more than their competitors then the other truck makers change their numbers without necessarily changing anything on their trucks. The 2011 GM trucks got a much stronger frame and larger brakes and better exhaust brake integration as well as the LML engine. Ram did the same with their 3500 trucks in 2013 and their 2500 trucks in 2014 and Ford beefed up its trucks starting in 2016. After that the horsepower may have increased but that does not truly mean that the trucks can safely carry a larger load long distances or through the mountains.

Crew cabs cut payload by 150 lbs per passenger seat. A 2500 will have less payload than a 3500 that has the second set of leaf springs. For $450 you can add a double leaf set of SuperSprings and have a 2500 with higher payload capacity than a stock 3500 truck.

Start by taking the truck to a CAT scale so you know exactly how much weight is supported at the rear wheels. Check out the tires as their load capacity is the next limitation for the truck. The axles can support 11000 lbs according to AAM so it is the leaf springs and tires that limit load capacity. For the factory the quick and dirty solution is to add two more tires at the rear axle and gain about 80% more load capacity. With SRW the ultimate in load capacity comes from going to 19.5 wheels and tires but this is a last resort option.

A side aspect of the towing wars among the light truck manufacturers is that now a 1-ton pickup requires a Class A CDL drivers license and in my state I pay an additional $1100 in commercial truck fees each year.
 
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