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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello, I just bought an 02 Duramax with the intension to make it fast. No towing or hauling. Just a stop light bruiser. I've read quite a bit about the trucks and I have a good understanding of most things but I'm hoping some of the more experienced D-Max owners can help with a few questions I have.

My goal is to run 12.00 to 12.50 eventually but keep the truck as driveable. And not grenade the LB7 hopefully.

- I have the ZF 6 speed and I plan to upgrade to the single mass flywheel and stronger clutch. I noticed at the 550/650 hp level they mention "chatter". How bad is this for street use? Since I'm not planning to tractor pull or tow large loads would I be safe with a unit that isn't this agressive?

- I'm looking at the PPE Hot +2 tuner that has a 350hp setting. At what power level do you "require" a lift pump or a 2nd CP3 pump? I've read you will strain the stock CP3 if you demand too much from it. Can anyone give me any guidelines of power levels and the fuel pump requirements for that? My thought is the 350hp setting provides a huge amount of fuel and nitrous would be a good idea to avoid upgrading the turbocharger.

With the PPE Hot +2 and nitrous would 12's be possible? Or am I looking at other serious modifications to get to this level?

Also my truck is the extended cab 4x4. Not sure of the rear gear ratio yet. And I'm at sea level elevation.

Thanks for any help here.
 

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with the ppe set on setting 6 thru 10(350hp)you will need a lift pump and it wouldn't hurt to have the dual cp3's but it isn't a must untill you hit 550+rwhp but if you want the best tuning for that kind of speed and power go with efi live and a seriously built tranny..heres a guy from this site with the same truck as your except his is a LLY http://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/competition/1616-zf-cracks-into-12s.html
on edit if you need more info check with McratRacing.com
 

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Yea, EFi Live is the way to go, yyou will have rough time gettin that ZF into the 12's without some mad power, 650ish range, which will require dual fuelers, nitrous or a big turbo, lift pump, billette rods, and head studs.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the information. I think I will go with the EFI Live. With future upgrades it sounds like this is the way to go. I want to try and avoid twin CP3's until I absolutely need them. From what I've seen you can make 500 or so rwhp with a FASS lift system.

I'm still curious about the clutch however. Any comments from 05 LLY? Is a dual disk set up a nightmare to drive on the street? I chose the ZF to avoid the mega expensive Allison upgrades. I have to believe if shifted right you will only lose a few tenths with the stick.
 

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Thanks for the information. I think I will go with the EFI Live. With future upgrades it sounds like this is the way to go. I want to try and avoid twin CP3's until I absolutely need them. From what I've seen you can make 500 or so rwhp with a FASS lift system.

I'm still curious about the clutch however. Any comments from 05 LLY? Is a dual disk set up a nightmare to drive on the street? I chose the ZF to avoid the mega expensive Allison upgrades. I have to believe if shifted right you will only lose a few tenths with the stick.
if i could be so bold as to mention the PPE Lift pump or the Kennedy Lifts verse the Fass pumps and the reason i say this is the fass pumps are so dang loud unlike my ppe pump..
you mite want to PM 05_LLY..
 

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Thanks for the information. I think I will go with the EFI Live. With future upgrades it sounds like this is the way to go. I want to try and avoid twin CP3's until I absolutely need them. From what I've seen you can make 500 or so rwhp with a FASS lift system.

I'm still curious about the clutch however. Any comments from 05 LLY? Is a dual disk set up a nightmare to drive on the street? I chose the ZF to avoid the mega expensive Allison upgrades. I have to believe if shifted right you will only lose a few tenths with the stick.
the dual disk clutch and single mass flywheel are gonna be required, theres no way a stock flywheel will live up to that kind of demand. they are noisy. most every drive-through will ask you to turn off your truck because they cant hear ya. it is streetable though. it's grabby trying to take off from a stopsign/light, but its nothing that you cant get used to. i wouldnt classify it as a nightmare. however, after dealing with the stockers i would classify them as a nightmare. if your stockers isnt broke yet, it will only be a matter of time till it does. i'm gonna have to disagree with ya on only losing a few tenths. the "throw" is to far. it just cant be shifted as fast as a car.
 

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I like my edelbrock 1792, good pump, good price.
 

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the PPE Lift pump is built by eldelbrock...
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
the dual disk clutch and single mass flywheel are gonna be required, theres no way a stock flywheel will live up to that kind of demand. they are noisy. most every drive-through will ask you to turn off your truck because they cant hear ya. it is streetable though. it's grabby trying to take off from a stopsign/light, but its nothing that you cant get used to. i wouldnt classify it as a nightmare. however, after dealing with the stockers i would classify them as a nightmare. if your stockers isnt broke yet, it will only be a matter of time till it does. i'm gonna have to disagree with ya on only losing a few tenths. the "throw" is to far. it just cant be shifted as fast as a car.
I'm not sure I follow you on the noise part. Noise from the clutch or from the engine with performance mods? I don't see how you can get extra noise from a different clutch/flywheel combo. My main question was really how much clutch do you really need with the 500rwhp level? Dual disk ceramic 6 puc? Or will a single disk ceramic style work for my application. Guess I need to just take it to good shop and discuss with them. Most of my racing will be on the street and not drag strip so the absolute lowest ET doesn't matter to me. The 6 speed IMO will beat an auto (engine power being the same) from a quick 3rd to 4th blast. Auto eats up a lot of power. But from a dead stop through qtr mile. Agreed, the Allison is king.
 

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I'm not sure I follow you on the noise part. Noise from the clutch or from the engine with performance mods? I don't see how you can get extra noise from a different clutch/flywheel combo. My main question was really how much clutch do you really need with the 500rwhp level? Dual disk ceramic 6 puc? Or will a single disk ceramic style work for my application. Guess I need to just take it to good shop and discuss with them. Most of my racing will be on the street and not drag strip so the absolute lowest ET doesn't matter to me. The 6 speed IMO will beat an auto (engine power being the same) from a quick 3rd to 4th blast. Auto eats up a lot of power. But from a dead stop through qtr mile. Agreed, the Allison is king.
the noise is from the clutch. and its there, loud and clear! honestly, i dont know what causes it. something about the single mass flywheel, diesel spike, centerplate rattling or a combo of all the above. i dont have any experience with the single disk set-up. i went with the dual, right off the bat. the single may hold up for you, IDK. but for a few dollars more you can get the dual, and it will hold 500hp. i dont think the 500hp level is gonna get you into the 12's. you will be able to out-run a lot of shit out there though. the 3-4 shift is the hardest shift to make (for me anyways). power being equal, an ally will win, IMO. from my limited dyno experiences (3 pulls, one of which was stock power), the drivetrain took 20%. which is about the same as an ally from what i have seen posted, and the ally outshifts me.

are you gonna be satisified with 500hp? most people are not, and they keep on looking/modding for more power. i put my clutch in myself, its not the easiest thing i have done (its not the hardest either) certainly not a job the typical oil changer wants to tackle. i would hate to know that i had to do it again because a single wouldnt hold. do it once, then your done.

seems like i read somewhere or was told 450hp or less on the single and 500hp+ on the dual.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
the noise is from the clutch. and its there, loud and clear! honestly, i dont know what causes it. something about the single mass flywheel, diesel spike, centerplate rattling or a combo of all the above. i dont have any experience with the single disk set-up. i went with the dual, right off the bat. the single may hold up for you, IDK. but for a few dollars more you can get the dual, and it will hold 500hp. i dont think the 500hp level is gonna get you into the 12's. you will be able to out-run a lot of shit out there though. the 3-4 shift is the hardest shift to make (for me anyways). power being equal, an ally will win, IMO. from my limited dyno experiences (3 pulls, one of which was stock power), the drivetrain took 20%. which is about the same as an ally from what i have seen posted, and the ally outshifts me.

are you gonna be satisified with 500hp? most people are not, and they keep on looking/modding for more power. i put my clutch in myself, its not the easiest thing i have done (its not the hardest either) certainly not a job the typical oil changer wants to tackle. i would hate to know that i had to do it again because a single wouldnt hold. do it once, then your done.

seems like i read somewhere or was told 450hp or less on the single and 500hp+ on the dual.
Ok, wow I didn't realize a dual disk set up would actually make the noise you are talking about. Sounds like it's managable though (just need to get my fast food inside...). You are right about being happy with 500 horse. I will eventually need more once a hopped up Vette or something takes me and it's back to the check book... Today I picked up a Triple Dog tuner for cheap to see how it works. The highest setting is pretty cool. I haven't beat on it too hard yet but do you think even this setting will toast the stock clutch with mild abuse? I can do clutch work as I have in the past but dropping the T/F case is a nightmare and with something making this much power I'll opt to pay someone to do it right. I'll call the place you mentioned and get their opinions also. Thanks a lot for your help. Much appreciated.
 

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Ok, wow I didn't realize a dual disk set up would actually make the noise you are talking about. Sounds like it's managable though (just need to get my fast food inside...). You are right about being happy with 500 horse. I will eventually need more once a hopped up Vette or something takes me and it's back to the check book... Today I picked up a Triple Dog tuner for cheap to see how it works. The highest setting is pretty cool. I haven't beat on it too hard yet but do you think even this setting will toast the stock clutch with mild abuse? I can do clutch work as I have in the past but dropping the T/F case is a nightmare and with something making this much power I'll opt to pay someone to do it right. I'll call the place you mentioned and get their opinions also. Thanks a lot for your help. Much appreciated.
the flywheel will break, i guarantee it. it may last a few thousand miles, but its gonna break. there just aint no two ways about it. IMO, the first thing that needs to be done is the flywheel/clutch. its not gonna matter how much HP you can make, if it does not get to the ground.
 
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