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you should not bypass the radiator, your coolant will run at around 190* F at temp, this means that the trans fluid running through the coolant will either be cooled by it and will approach 190*F, or it will be warmed up by the coolant to 190*F. The radiator acts like a thermal buffer for the transmission in this case allowing it to both warm up to temp faster, and maintain temperature. If your seeing temps over 200, the radiator will still be cooling the fluid off, so bypassing it will reduce cooling efficiency of the transmission fluid.
 
A transmission at 240 is DEFINITELY an issue and 280 is a large paper weight. The very problem could be that it’s an ATS transmission, but like already stated here multiple times, the cooling stack needs to be cleaned and the fan clutch needs to be checked.
Large bumpers and grills will directly cause high temps. Also, make sure the cooler lines are not swapped, as this will cause a major issue with heat.

I’ve warrantied out a couple of ATS Allison’s due to high temps. It can trip a DTC if it gets hot enough.
 
I agree with the folks who are telling you to clean the cooling stack. When I got my 2008, both the coolant and the trans seemed to run hot. I removed the cooling stack (it is a bit of work), cleaned an unbelievable amount of dust, bugs, and tree seeds out of everything, and every thing runs rock solid at the correct temps ever since.
 
The cooling system is built oversized for any reasonable condition so that when it is compromised by some debris in the fins or some corrosion in the tubes it will still be able to function adequately. There is, of course, a limit to what it can do. If things get really plugged up there is no way it can cool properly.

So far you have done some good things but people have suggested more that can be done and you need to trust what they say. Those things include:

Check the contents of the trans pan. This should be the next step because what you find could alert you to pending disaster or it may prove that you don't have a real problem.

Scan the temp sensor when the truck is cold. It should read very close to ambient temperature. If it doesn't then while the pan is off replace the temp sensor. There is only one so what ever is reading temp is getting the info from the same place as everything else.

I agree that 240 is high but it isn't high enough to kill the transmission, yet. The thing is, if the sensor in the pan is reading 240 then it may be more than 300 coming out of the converter. That would be a real problem.

Just as a maintenance item, remove the cooling stack and clean it. It's a big project and will cost some money to replace the coolant but you don't need to discharge the A/C necessarily. While you are at it either take the radiator to a shop to get it cleaned out, run some flush through it or replace it. You can get a new radiator from RockAuto for $2-300. That isn't cheap but it beats the price of a trans by a long shot. You can plug up a cooling stack in about 15 minutes of driving through 3 foot tall weeds so it would not be surprising at all if that is your real problem.

While doing the the cooling stack thing it would be a good time to do the thermostats while you are in there with everything out of the way. I don't see any real problem with them but it is a normal maintenance thing to do on an older engine.

If you don't replace the radiator or take it to a shop to have it flushed, then be sure to flush the trans cooler both directions while it is out. I mean both of them, the radiator one and the separate one. I think if they were in bad shape you would have bigger problems than you do but it's worth the extra 15 minutes to do it. You can buy flush specifically intended for cleaning out the trans cooler at a parts store but you can also do a pretty good job with a garden sprayer full of strong soapy water followed by clean water followed by air. I would even follow that with some brake clean and air again but not everyone would agree with that.

I think you have already done enough to verify that your trans isn't slipping so I don't think you need to worry.

As far as fluid, there are really only a hand full of things that are critical. The fluid has to be compatible with the seals and friction materials it was built with. It has to be of the proper viscosity but there aren't a lot of options there so what you already have is probably good that way. All modern ATF formulas have a lot of detergent in them but it might be possible to find some that didn't. Dex 6 is really good on that account.

It used to be that rebuild shops used Mercon as a universal trans fluid because it has more friction modifiers in it than old Dexron so a lot of old GM transmissions used to run around with Ford fluid in them. Today it seem that everyone wants you to use their specific fluid or they promise death and destruction. I'm not sure I believe all of that but I try to stick with the recommendations as closely as I can. When it was recommended to you that you use ATF +4, as has been said, that is a Chrysler specification. Most +4 is full synthetic, like Dex 6. However the specifics are a little different. I would advise that you do exactly what the people who built the trans say to do. It is no longer an Allison or GM transmission, exactly. So what Allison or GM say no longer applies.

When the Allison 1000 transmission was first designed it was intended for use in smaller commercial trucks like wreckers and delivery vans. It was way more than a pickup needed. Pickup drivers want their trucks to drive like cars so a big beefy Allison would have been too harsh. Just think of how bus transmissions lurch when they shift. To make the Allison 1000 suitable for use in pickups they removed some of the friction materials by making some of the clutch plates with material on only one side instead of two.

This meant that there was less to rub together when the clutch was not applied and was slipping. That means less heat. Of course when they make the Allison 1000 tough again for hotrodding they put in plates with two sided frictions and set it up a little tighter than it used to be. The result is more rubbing and therefore more heat. That also means that there is more drag so that most trucks with "built" transmissions don't get the economy they used to. There's always a trade off.

Your cooling system is capable of handling the extra heat of a built trans but it has to be in good shape. What might work for a stock trans might not work for a built one.
 
The transmission temp sensor is just a temperature sensitive resistor. If you would like to measure the resistance of the trans temp sensor and the temperature at the time, I could compare it to a chart I have to tell you if it is in the right range or if it is wack. At 50 degrees it should be about 5500 ohms. At 100 degrees it should read around 1500 ohms. At 200 degrees it should be around 215 ohms.

The sensor is just ziptied to the wiring harness on the bottom of the valve body inside the pan. A new one is about $55 from the Rock.
 
….The radiator acts like a thermal buffer for the transmission in this case allowing it to both warm up to temp faster, and maintain temperature. If your seeing temps over 200, the radiator will still be cooling the fluid off, so bypassing it will reduce cooling efficiency of the transmission fluid.
I agree with the folks who are telling you to clean the cooling stack. When I got my 2008, both the coolant and the trans seemed to run hot.....
Because of the routing J83 discussed, your ECTs and Trans fluid temps, run hand in hand.

If you’ve got a blocked cooling stack, you’ll 1st notice an abnormal rise in ECTs, followed by the trans temps rising if you haven’t pulled back on it by that time (or your fan clutch doesn't cycle). If it's never been cleaned after 12 years, it's a worthy maintenance endeavor, but I don't think it's your root problem.

Pulling over, your ECTs will drop 1st, but the trans fluid temps will make a more gradual drop in temps. Two different flow designs; one cycles, the other is constant flow.

As the OP stated that this is a new problem after running 30k miles, you can rule out swapped lines, and if the ECT isn’t also showing a spike, then you likely have a blockage in the trans fluid flow North and back.

1st point of restriction from the pan is the inlet at the rad. I’d remove that line at the radiator and inspect for debris collected there, before dropping the pan.
 
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You're way off on your Allison info. Do some reading.
I did, just to be sure that what I thought I remembered was correct. The location, nature and resistance of the sensor comes directly from AllData. As far as I can tell, AllData is basically scans of the factory manuals with a few corrections added when the manual errata is published. I find very few errors in what they say.

I am totally willing to be corrected. I'm not infallible. Just making a blanket statement that I am wrong, without further explanation, does no one any good. Please let me know where I went wrong.

I know you are an expert. Please share your knowledge. We could all benefit.
 
I don't have time to go over all your mistakes. I'll start with the fluid. GM used Dex 3 for many years and Ford used Mercon. They were basically the same and the oil companys put out a fluid that was compatible for both. Dex/Merc was the name. It is still the universal fluid sold today and used in most every shop.
As far as the Allison goes; the number of clutches has always been the same with the 1000, 2000, 2250, 2400. Didn't matter if it was in a bus ,tow truck, or the GM trucks. Never ever was a single sided clutch used. In the after market they were used, but never from Allison.
The reason for the different feeling shifts from model to model is the TCM ( trans computer )strategy.
The medium duty and heavy duty trucks made shifts with the converter locked which made an abrupt shift. This strategy did not cushion the shifts ( kinda like a stick shift ). This was done to help cool the Allison for HD usage and sucked during stop and go driving. This is why it was never programmed in the GM 2500/3500 trucks.
I'll get back with more info when time allows.
I suggest you do more reading and less listening to BS hearsay off the internet. Don't ever post tech info unless you have used it yourself. People will believe things and make wrong choices that will cost them.
 
Thanks for the corrections. As I said before, I've not actually rebuilt an Allison myself. I got the idea of single sided frictions from youtube videos I've watched. Perhaps I misunderstood what they were saying.

As far as Dex/Merc, Ya. I wouldn't agree that there was no difference but I would agree that the differences could be combined into one single fluid that was universal. I have some on my shelf now. Though I've never rebuilt an Allison I have done many others. The clutch makers of old always specified Mercon. That was before the universal stuff was available. They always referred to the friction modifiers in Mercon as being essential to a successful overhaul.

I'm not Mr. Transend. I don't have huge expertise about transmission fluids. I just go by what I've been told. That is why I recommended the same to others on here.
 
I cleaned my cooling stack in place with a extended airnozle and notched my core support in two areas for easy access because I will be cleaning these as regular maintenance cause of how much it helps. I know I'm a hack but now I can blow mine out no problem I used a high pressure hose after I used air cause it had ever been cleaned before and it was bad 1st time I spent couple hours.
 
Discussion starter · #55 ·
So I used a temp gum today on the transmission pan and external filter. It was 20-25 degrees cooler then the inside gage and my programmer display. I will check for a nick in the wire if I can find it. And I guess next step would be change the temp sensor in the transmission. ? Any thoughts.
 
Discussion starter · #56 ·
I have read the whole thread and I need to confirm it's the trans fluid temp and not the engine cooling temp. If in fact it is the trans fluid temp their is a definite problem. To confirm did you bypass the radiator trans cooler and are using only the PPE trans cooler. I have an 07 LBZ with a stg V built Allison and a Suncoast triple disc TC. Towing a 13K lb 5th wheel I usually run 85-90 deg over ambient outside temp. I had an eng cooling temp problem and fixed that but didn't want to hunt and peck what I did to correct it. I usually tow my 5er at 63-65 mph in 5th gear on the level 4 tune. No problems
It is the trans not engine coolant. Engine temp is fine. I have a brand new motor with only 8k miles on it now.
 
Seems you are making a real mountain out of a mole hill. Trans temps in the 250+ are not really a concern, not to mention the computer will derate engine to protect everything if temps get too high. The IR temp of the outside of the case will always be less than the fluid temp, does not mean there is anything wrong with the temp sender.
I used to work in transmision development and the extreme testing that is done on the cooling systems is far more than any normal person would ever do.
Best advice I have for anyone
1. Make sure the cooling system is correctly plumbed, dont by pass anything, the coolant is clean and radiator is unobstructed
2. Use the specified fluid only due to the wet clutch plates being designed for a certain type of chemistry. Change the chemistry, change the friction
3. Change the fluid according to mfg reccomendations. My preference is to do a complete change through the coolant lines and NOT pull the pan as if you look at warranty data by far the biggest complaint, pan leaks
4. Most important, relax about the temps it is very difficult to overheat the fluid to an extent to do any real damage
5. There is a significant post shutoff residual temp rise, if you are really pushing the trans and temps are high let it idle for a few minutes to let the residual heat bleed off.

Hope this helps
 
I am not a rocket scientist (although I DID work in the Rocket Factory) but I would NEVER let my trans temps get even close to 250F! All my research from transmission gurus-including the shop that built my trans- tells me that even the best ATF will start breaking down rapidly at constant 220+ temps and I believe them. I tow a heavy 5th wheel often and I don't like to see temps approaching 200, which sometimes happens when I am towing in stop and go traffic on a hot day. I keep the "100 over OAT" rule. Not a big fan of having trans issues on the road pulling a 5th wheel and Bubba's Bait and Tranny Shop is the only mechanic in 200 miles....
 
AH the age old problem who do you believe, someone you have never met on the internet of the mfg of the transmission? I can tell you that the testing we did was heavily instrumented and we ran the vehicles at gross or above on very steep roads under high temps. This was followed by oil analysis and transmission tear down looking for wear, failure etc. There is a reason why the trans temp gauge goes to 300F, with the redline starting near 280f.
In the end it up to each person to decide what they believe and where to spend their money on. Personally I think the OEM knows best, they run instrumented, calibrated tests and also have to provide a 100,000 mile+ warranty which I think are far more reliable than one off personal observations.
 
It’s not so much as who you believe, it’s what makes you feel more comfortable.
I’ve never met you, I 'dunno; your true back ground experience if any, I’d just as soon to go with my beliefs and stay below 250.
 
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