[NWarren]

Im leaning heavily towards deleting before winter, im not a fan of my truck being all blocked up. I knew what i was getting into when i bought it, but thought more conventional deleting options would be available by now. Has anyone heard about more conventional deleting being available soon??? I havent heard much of anything except discussion, so figured i would ask.

Regarding waiting for parts - even some recalls dont have fixes e.g. the block heater on my 19' - told not to use it, and will need to come winter time in the NE, lets go GM, get it together!!!

Price will likely never go down to what previous trucks were beings that HPT is the only company that’s even touching the ecm’s. EFI Live has already stated that they’re not touching them. Not saying HPT won’t lower the price if they streamline the process a little more (they already knocked off $700 from the initial cost) but in all reality it’s a limited market due to cost. I’d say since they’ve made them tuneable and people are paying the price, it’ll stay the same from here on out. That being said, I’m no expert, and that’s just the way I see it in my little brain.

 

[mizterwizard]

The warranty on a relatively new truck is worth at least $10,000. Loss of warranty is the real cost of deleting a truck. If people would just be patient and wait until the warranty runs out, by that time deletes and tuning would be much more affordable. Probably there would be direct programming instead of computer mods too.

And if it wasn't for those who can't wait, there would be no market so nothing would be done yet. So thank you to all of those who are pioneering the way.

I'd like to add something about the video of the guy doing economy tests on his tuned L5P (post #30). He drives mostly in town. He thinks a 45 mile highway drive at 80 might have hurt his economy. He floors it all of the time and he is disappointed at 18 MPG on a full sized truck. What was he expecting? I can hardly think of a worse situation for unladened economy. If he drove carefully on the highway at 65 MPH or so he would probably be getting 25 MPG. I'd say he is doing pretty well, all things considered.

 

[mizterwizard]

Contrary to what might be assumed by my previous posts, I'm not actually in favor of deleting. I like clean air. However, the state of the art in emissions control has been inadequate for several years. Since the emissions controls cause more trouble than they cure I'm in favor of deleting those controls. In the last couple of years though it seems that things have gotten more sorted out. It may not be a good thing to delete anymore. I'm not sure but it is worth thinking about.

The only things that still irk me are throwing away fuel to burn soot out of the DPF and soot being brought into the intake by the EGR. I think these problems are solvable in time and when that happens it will no longer be useful to delete.

 

[charlie brown]

After 20-30k if you haven't had any major issues and now you know your truck is not a lemon the warranty is there to keep your emissions in place just long enough to destroy to longevity of your engine. IMOP

 

[mizterwizard]

After 20-30k if you haven't had any major issues and now you know your truck is not a lemon the warranty is there to keep your emissions in place just long enough to destroy to longevity of your engine. IMOP

There is some logic to that. If you chart the number of failures in a typical truck you will see that there tend to be a lot at first but the frequency drops off quickly. By 25K the incidence of new problems is pretty small. Warranties used to run around 30k and that covered the great majority of problems. Then around 120-150K things start going bad more often. Sometime after 250K the amount of problems starts to exceed the amount of money people are willing to put into a truck and then it gets sold or scrapped.

However, there are still many people who have problems with their trucks right up to the warranty expiring. It is a personal judgment when to delete. Just be aware of the real costs. It is easy to overlook the value of the warranty.

 

[charlie brown]

Factory warranty makes sense to protect against manufacture defects which happens in all vehicle makes.

Keeping emissions on to retain an extended warranty is like a Doctor telling his patient with high cholesterol to keep eating a poor diet and if you have a heart attack we will get you all fixed up then.

Extended warranty doesn't make much sense anyways for a mechanically inclined person. On average extended warranty is what $5k-$7k? and most likely you will only need it for small trivial items (water pump, alternator tie rod ends etc.) which are all fairly cheap and easy to fix. If in fact you have a major failure (transmission or engine) the warranty might re deem it's self and you will get a replacement or a patch fix to get you through the warranty period.

Personally I would save the $5k-$7k and if I make it through the warranty period I am money ahead. If I have a major failure I see it as an opportunity to buy a BUILT transmission or engine and end up with what I really want while spending roughly the same amount at the end of the day..

 

[henry42]

Factory warranty makes sense to protect against manufacture defects which happens in all vehicle makes.

Keeping emissions on to retain an extended warranty is like a Doctor telling his patient with high cholesterol to keep eating a poor diet and if you have a heart attack we will get you all fixed up then.

Extended warranty doesn't make much sense anyways for a mechanically inclined person. On average extended warranty is what $5k-$7k? and most likely you will only need it for small trivial items (water pump, alternator tie rod ends etc.) which are all fairly cheap and easy to fix. If in fact you have a major failure (transmission or engine) the warranty might re deem it's self and you will get a replacement or a patch fix to get you through the warranty period.

Personally I would save the $5k-$7k and if I make it through the warranty period I am money ahead. If I have a major failure I see it as an opportunity to buy a BUILT transmission or engine and end up with what I really want while spending roughly the same amount at the end of the day..

GM's extended warranty is not all that expensive and considering the mind boggling costs of repairing these ridiculously expensive machines IMHO very worthwhile.

I've had them on my past three trucks and have come out ahead every time.

 

[mizterwizard]

Whether to have an extended warranty or not is purely a matter of what you can do for yourself and how much risk you are willing to accept. I would never have an extended warranty because I can recover from just about anything for less than half the price most people would pay. For some others who can't do the work and are fearful then a warranty is a good bet. Ultimately, it has to be a losing proposition or else the warranty company couldn't stay in business.

 

[jdwarren]

Whether to have an extended warranty or not is purely a matter of what you can do for yourself and how much risk you are willing to accept. I would never have an extended warranty because I can recover from just about anything for less than half the price most people would pay. For some others who can't do the work and are fearful then a warranty is a good bet. Ultimately, it has to be a losing proposition or else the warranty company couldn't stay in business.

The first moment hardly tells the whole story. :nerd:

When the distribution of repair costs is highly asymmetrical (it is) and exclusively positive (it is), the average "expected wealth" or "expected cost" is probably not the best arbiter of whether an insurance policy (what else is a warranty?) is worth its premium. Consciously or otherwise, most of us evaluate risks in terms of their utility rather than direct impact on wealth, and the utility costs tend to be increasing functions of wealth cost. So even though the expected value of my insurance policies are all negative (which must certainly be the case because, as you pointed out, the "house" stays in business and continues to offer them), I maintain them willingly aside from any legal obligation.

 

[Dirty5P]

I'll throw a little 10mm socket in the works here...

I know this thread is about deleting, but since warranty and the corresponding value has been brought up, i'll throw this out and see what everyone's thoughts are...

Obviously we know that GM factory warranties arent going to cover a deleted truck, but, what about a good aftermarket warranty? Full discloser, i dont know much about them and if some will offer protection for aftermarket modifications, or a deleted vehicle, or if its just a hard "hell no" they wont. Lets discuss.

 

[monkeyman]

so far under my extended warranty they replaced my entire radio, drivers leaf spring, one seat, all this would go away with delete, plus its against the law!

 

[Sawtooth]

so far under my extended warranty they replaced my entire radio, drivers leaf spring, one seat, all this would go away with delete, plus its against the law![/QUOTE

Yeah but so is crossing the boarder illegally but no one seems to care. So I will delete when I’m ready.

 

[2THE9S]

so far under my extended warranty they replaced my entire radio, drivers leaf spring, one seat, all this would go away with delete, plus its against the law!

That is incorrect. Deleting would void any warranty claims on anything that could reasonably be caused by the delete. For example. If the transmission goes out on a deleted and tuned truck the warranty would not cover it. They can not deny a claim for a radio or seat because you deleted the emissions tho.

Do a search for Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

 

[mizterwizard]

If you delete I think you can forget about any warranty from any source on anything that could be connected to the deletes. If an axle twists off you can bet they will claim it is due to the delete.

If you delete, you are the warranty.

How can a warranty company possibly assess the risk associated with a modified system? In their mind it is a total unknown. They have only one way to deal with an unknown, don't insure it.

 

[2THE9S]

If you delete I think you can forget about any warranty from any source on anything that could be connected to the deletes. If an axle twists off you can bet they will claim it is due to the delete.

If you delete, you are the warranty.

How can a warranty company possibly assess the risk associated with a modified system? In their mind it is a total unknown. They have only one way to deal with an unknown, don't insure it.

Do a search for Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

For anything that could reasonable be caused by the delete and tune, you are correct. For things like the seat and stereo that were mentioned earlier, the warranty would still cover.

 

[Sawtooth]

Do a search for Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.



For anything that could reasonable be caused by the delete and tune, you are correct. For things like the seat and stereo that were mentioned earlier, the warranty would still cover.

Yep this is correct. Been through this already with my Ford F-250.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[mizterwizard]

Do a search for Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act.

For anything that could reasonable be caused by the delete and tune, you are correct. For things like the seat and stereo that were mentioned earlier, the warranty would still cover.

No argument with that but I can see any warranty company straining at gnats to get out of a serious claim. On the other hand, you would be paying for a warranty on the full drive train that would be automatically exempt from coverage. Makes for a pretty expensive radio and upholstery policy.

 

[2THE9S]

No argument with that but I can see any warranty company straining at gnats to get out of a serious claim. On the other hand, you would be paying for a warranty on the full drive train that would be automatically exempt from coverage. Makes for a pretty expensive radio and upholstery policy.

Historically, after owning two other Duramax trucks, the only warranty claims I’ve ever had was with the emissions system on my 2012. There were a lot of them on that truck. Last 4 times were in the last 6 months of ownership. Several other emission issues before that as well.

Other than a couple of glow plugs on my 2006, I had no issues with it until 254,000 miles when I had to replace the injection pump. That was way past the warranty time and mileage.

Maybe I’m naive, but in my mind, if I get rid of the most failure prone system on the truck, the chances of me needing a warranty are slim to none.

 

[mizterwizard]

I concur that the emissions controls on diesel trucks for the last 20 years have been a real weakness. I am in favor of eliminating the weakness. I am also in favor of waiting until the warranty is gone or at least until it is near its end.

I don't believe there is any warranty, OEM or aftermarket, that will cover a deleted drive train and certainly not a tuned drive train. If someone deletes the first thing they delete is the warranty on anything connected with the drive train.

I think tuning and deleting are good things generally because of how poorly the smog stuff is implemented. I just think most people don't count the real cost of what they are doing.

I think that some of the newer trucks may be over the hump as far as emissions controls problems. Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly but it seems that in the last two or three years there haven't been as many problems. It may be time to stop deleting. I'm not willing to make that call though. It could be that given enough miles the same problems will come back.

It is a rare thing to delete a gas truck these days because the smog controls they have are working just fine. Some day I hope it becomes like that for diesels too.

That doesn't mean that tuning will ever become a thing of the past though.

 

[2THE9S]

I concur that the emissions controls on diesel trucks for the last 20 years have been a real weakness. I am in favor of eliminating the weakness. I am also in favor of waiting until the warranty is gone or at least until it is near its end.

I don't believe there is any warranty, OEM or aftermarket, that will cover a deleted drive train and certainly not a tuned drive train. If someone deletes the first thing they delete is the warranty on anything connected with the drive train.

I think tuning and deleting are good things generally because of how poorly the smog stuff is implemented. I just think most people don't count the real cost of what they are doing.

I think that some of the newer trucks may be over the hump as far as emissions controls problems. Maybe I'm not seeing things clearly but it seems that in the last two or three years there haven't been as many problems. It may be time to stop deleting. I'm not willing to make that call though. It could be that given enough miles the same problems will come back.

It is a rare thing to delete a gas truck these days because the smog controls they have are working just fine. Some day I hope it becomes like that for diesels too.

That doesn't mean that tuning will ever become a thing of the past though.

As long as they are pumping exhaust back thru the motor, you are shortening the life of the motor the longer you allow it!

Once upon a time, Isuzu was contracted to design a diesel motor that would last 250,000 miles with nothing more than basic maintenance. Now we get motors that are so chocked by soot when it reaches the 100,000 mile mark that you are not going to get the life out of it you could have if it were deleted.