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Well, I have had the truck for 2 months. I can't begin to tell you how frustrated I am with the 6 disk CD changer spitting out CDs after playing 1 or 2 tracks.. It is getting so hot it just malfunctions. I removed it and blew the dust out with compressed air and it did nothing.
I also hate I can't plug in my ipod to listen to MY music.
XM Radio gave me a 3 month subscription, and it is alright, but I still want to select my own music.
I have the Bose 7 speaker system.

I have been doing tons of research on this, and I want to learn from what others have done.

Here is my thinking:

$600ish range double din radio (Kenwood is what I was thinking, but have heard Pioneer is a bit better?) with wireless Android Auto or Apple Carplay. I want google maps to display on it, but I am not paying for Garmin integrated maps because they are always out of date as soon as you update. Plus traffic rarely shows correctly. I will probably get a licenplate mounted backup camera and some point, maybe. But not right away unless it is inexpensive.

GM PAC RP5-GM11 wiring interface

component speakers for the front doors and pillar mounted tweeter

2 way speakers for the rear doors

JL Audio Stealthbox with the 10W3v3 sub installed - goes inside the center console SB-GM-BURBCNSL/10W3v3

What I have (taking out of my 97 Silverado and reusing what I can)
front door speakers Polk Audio 6.5" component speakers DXi6501
Polk Audio 200w x 4 amplifier PA D4000.4 - I used these to drive the 4 speakers in the old truck
Rockford Punch 300 x 1 P300X1 amplifier I used to drive the sub
JL Audio 10" thin line subwoofer 10TW3-D4 in a custom enclosure I built (I can't reuse enclosure, obviously)

I have looked at the Bose amplifier, and mine is working. Do I keep that system, and just install the radio, speakers, and sub? Or, should I bypass the Bose amp (which looks like a pain in the ass, I don't really want to run new speaker wires.)

I also don't want the sub box under the rear seat, because then the seats don't fold down.

I looked under the front seats, there is no room to install the amps. Where else could amps be installed successfully?

Help me think through this build, and teach me what you have learned.

Thanks everyone!!
 

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I had a jl tw13.5 in my lly. I had a custom box built that fit behind the seats. That way they could still fold down. It spanned the width of the entire back seat. I secured it to the back wall with heavy duty velcro. I even bought the grill cover for the speaker cone. That way my dog could lay in front of it and not damage it. Not to mention groceries and whatever other crap I may have had rolling around back there. The sub amp I had wired up under the rear seat behind the driver. It was thin enough that the seat would still flip down and cover it like it wasn't even there.
 

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I had a jl tw13.5 in my lly. I had a custom box built that fit behind the seats. That way they could still fold down. It spanned the width of the entire back seat. I secured it to the back wall with heavy duty velcro. I even bought the grill cover for the speaker cone. That way my dog could lay in front of it and not damage it. Not to mention groceries and whatever other crap I may have had rolling around back there. The sub amp I had wired up under the rear seat behind the driver. It was thin enough that the seat would still flip down and cover it like it wasn't even there.
Thank you for the response.

I have thought about doing something like this. But, with a factory sub in the center console, it makes a ton of sense to just remove the crappy stock one and put in a 10" there.

I have a 10" JL sub in my 97 Silverado, and the thing is stupid loud for a 10. You can't hear it much from outside the vehicle, and I am ok with that. I want it to sound like a concert INSIDE the truck. :wink2:

I might look at the amp under the rear seat if it doesn't fit in the center console like the Bose amp does.
 

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anyone else have ideas or opinions for me?
 

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nobody has learned from installing a double din radio with Android Auto and a sub in the center console?

Or has advise on keeping / bypassing the Bose amp in the truck?
 

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nobody has learned from installing a double din radio with Android Auto and a sub in the center console?

Or has advise on keeping / bypassing the Bose amp in the truck?



bypassing your amp is super easy, there is a plug with a christmass tree style retaining clip on the back side of the radio basket behind the HVAC controls, disconnect it and connect your radio harness to that instead and wire the harness as if it were not a bose truck. thats all you have to do to bypass the bose amp, no extra wires run, no pulling the amp out.

i would not personally install a sub in the center console, not a lot of air volume and its prone to rattling, id mount your amps to the back wall behind the seats so its nearly impossible to grow legs, put your sub box under the rear seat, run 3 sets or RCA cables back and a run of speed wire back up to the radio harness for your amplifies speaker return. you do not want to run amplified audio into the bose amp, you will have a bad time.

i had not posted to this earlier as i did not see a specific question asked, the hardware you have and the radio your looking at seem like reasonable options for the truck. If you have questions, ill try to answer them. Also, as far as the radio goes i would personally go Pioneer over Kenwood but thats my preference. The pioneers have a faster operating system and there settings are a little more intuitive to navigate. I also think they look better but thats subjective.


if you cant find the plug im talking about, pull your radio and HVAC controls (you dont need to disconnect them, just remove them from the dash and let them hang, 2 7mm screws and you need to pop the 4 white lock tabs in to remove the panel) out and take a picture, ill point it out. It should be pretty clear but ive done it probably 500 times and sometimes i forget not everyone has that much touch time on this kind of work.
 

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Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
bypassing your amp is super easy, there is a plug with a christmass tree style retaining clip on the back side of the radio basket behind the HVAC controls, disconnect it and connect your radio harness to that instead and wire the harness as if it were not a bose truck. thats all you have to do to bypass the bose amp, no extra wires run, no pulling the amp out.

i would not personally install a sub in the center console, not a lot of air volume and its prone to rattling, id mount your amps to the back wall behind the seats so its nearly impossible to grow legs, put your sub box under the rear seat, run 3 sets or RCA cables back and a run of speed wire back up to the radio harness for your amplifies speaker return. you do not want to run amplified audio into the bose amp, you will have a bad time.

i had not posted to this earlier as i did not see a specific question asked, the hardware you have and the radio your looking at seem like reasonable options for the truck. If you have questions, ill try to answer them. Also, as far as the radio goes i would personally go Pioneer over Kenwood but thats my preference. The pioneers have a faster operating system and there settings are a little more intuitive to navigate. I also think they look better but thats subjective.


if you cant find the plug im talking about, pull your radio and HVAC controls (you dont need to disconnect them, just remove them from the dash and let them hang, 2 7mm screws and you need to pop the 4 white lock tabs in to remove the panel) out and take a picture, ill point it out. It should be pretty clear but ive done it probably 500 times and sometimes i forget not everyone has that much touch time on this kind of work.
holy cow, thank you for the response!

I called Crutchfield today - they are always my go-to as well regardless of the vehicle I am outfitting. They have helped me out a ton on my 95 Firebird, 97 Silverado, 2004 Trailblazer and my 98 Bonneville.

I have learned a lot from these previous systems.. like it is better to spend a little more money up front and get quality pieces. And don't half-ass shit just to rush it and get it done. Take your time, go slow, route crap correctly, and I am more happy with it. This is why I am soliciting info for this time around.

Crutchfield recommended:
JVC radio KW-V950BW - she said it was really good at a better price since JVS is a sister company to Kenwood.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_105KWV950B/JVC-KW-V950BW.html
JL Stealthbox with the 10: W3V3 sub - it fits in the center console with modification. Self contained, no rattling.
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_13694033/JL-Audio-Stealthbox.html
JL Audio RD500/1 to drive the sub
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_13698618/JL-Audio-RD500-1.html

She said the Rockford Punch amp I have would work, but if I wanted more base then I could upgrade the amp later.
https://www.crutchfield.com/S-WMeruBYFW6P/p_575P300X1/Rockford-Fosgate-Punch-P300X1.html?XVINQ=GLX&awkw=75640979545&awat=pla&awnw=g&awcr=47644067785&awdv=c&awug=1014573&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIjo6Fg7LC4wIVEdvACh1PdQlwEAYYASABEgJqV_D_BwE

Some research I have done indicates if I plug into the harness up by the radio to bypass the Bose amp that I lose the tweeters in the B pillars. I have a set of Polk Audio component speakers I was looking to install in the front door and B pillar. Do you think I should forgo that and get 2 way door speakers and don't fuss with the B pillar? Which way would sound better?
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB6502/Polk-Audio-DB-6502.html these but previous version

I'll do the Polk Audio DB652 for the rear doors (2 way)
https://www.crutchfield.com/p_107DB652/Polk-Audio-DB-652.html

I am not sure I want to run speaker wires from amps to each door. It's a lot of work as I did that in my 97 Silverado.. but it did sound good using my Polk Audio 200w x 4 amp.
https://www.polkaudio.com/products/pad4000

There isn't room under the drivers and passenger seat to mount amps (sigh). I kind of wanted to install trays under the rear seats to have tools etc.. but I guess if amps need to be mounted there, it isn't the end of the world. I really want the seats to fold down flat. That's what is driving not getting a sub under the rear seats.
 

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you should mount the amplifiers to the rear WALL of the cab not the floor, leave the floor space for the sub box, you should be able to fit that there. While most people will just zip some screws through the back wall of the cab (i have yet to see this actually cause rust issues, though it could) it would be better to mount them to a thin piece of MDF or ABS and then mount that to already existing points in the truck. I dont personally like drilling through the back wall if i dont have to.

rather than running wires to each speaker, get a roll or speed wire, some times also called nine wire and run that from the amp outputs back up to the radio harness along with your RCA cables to the amps, and connect it there. This cable has 8 speaker wires (4 sets) and a remote wire. all speaker wires are color coded for each speaker and the polarity as well (same colors that are on the radio harness to make life easy) That way the amplified signal runs from the amp, through the speed wire, and into the factory wires to each speaker. This is how it would be done in a professional shop, they would not run new wires to each speaker unless there was either a problem with the wiring, or you were running absolutely absurd amounts of power into each door.


there are some ok JVC radios, i dont have that exact one, but i do actually own an earlier version of it, its ok, not great. pandora integration is mediocre and the OS is kinda sluggish but it is a perfectly functional radio and ive had it for several years. given your price range, i would personally look at a pioneer avic 5201 nex, it includes GPS, which is very good (i own a 8201 NEX, which is basically the same radio with more bling) and its only about 50 bucks more than your price point new. They are excellent radios.


as for the dash tweeters, firstly, tweeters next to the windshield are just not a great thing from an acoustics perspective in the first place, so losing them would not really hurt you, and given your setup i would actually disconnect them were i to do your install, as you will have tweeters in the woofer in the door that will be in a better location for sound quality. However, they are wired in parallel with the woofers and so they should still work, but i will admit i am not 100% sure. I feel like i have never seen a GM truck lose tweeters after an install like this though.

also, a note on amplifier power. Im sure the person at crutchfield was very helpful, and generally they get pretty close to the ball park, however they are usually not installers and usually do not have any actual real world experience, at least from my conversations with them. So bearing that in mind, the amplifiers that you linked above, the 300 RMS RF mono block and the 500 RMS JL mono block are almost identical in output. That is because in order to double the "loudness" of a speaker you need to increase its power by 10 times, not 2 times like you would think. the decibel scale is logarithmic not liner. in order to even tell the difference in preceived volume you need to double the power, so from 300 to 500 is not even a 3 decibel increase in volume, no point to upgrade the amp unless you are in a sealed box. In a sealed box, you need more power to move the speaker because it has to push / pull against a vacuum or pressure in the box. So for the same "volume" a sealed box needs more power. I do not think you have enough power for a sealed box with either amp to be honest.


this is nine wire if you want to get some. i would highly recommend it.

https://www.amazon.com/Metra-MC918-20-20-Feet-Nine-Conductor-Multi-Use/dp/B004H1KAMQ/ref=pd_cp_23_1?pd_rd_w=tQgyd&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=85QY2VRR1HFJXAKEWWEE&pd_rd_r=901e2fca-bf6a-4464-a212-74d64d5e06de&pd_rd_wg=HGfGH&pd_rd_i=B004H1KAMQ&psc=1&refRID=85QY2VRR1HFJXAKEWWEE


as for your speakers, i dont like those polks, but the generation before them that you have are quite good. I feel like material quality took a hit after the series you have. I had those same speakers in my old truck for years before i switched them to Pioneer D series speakers (again, older models are built better than current).


Edit: if you mount the amp to the back wall behind the seat back, you should not run it in 1 ohm mode, the 3 decibel increase in power from the sub is not worth the extra heat behind the seat killing your amp. Most amps are not 1 ohm stable, however some JL and RF amps are. there's more to a good audio system than max power, unless your trying to compete in SPL competitions.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
you should mount the amplifiers to the rear WALL of the cab not the floor, leave the floor space for the sub box, you should be able to fit that there. While most people will just zip some screws through the back wall of the cab (i have yet to see this actually cause rust issues, though it could) it would be better to mount them to a thin piece of MDF or ABS and then mount that to already existing points in the truck. I dont personally like drilling through the back wall if i dont have to.

rather than running wires to each speaker, get a roll or speed wire, some times also called nine wire and run that from the amp outputs back up to the radio harness along with your RCA cables to the amps, and connect it there. This cable has 8 speaker wires (4 sets) and a remote wire. all speaker wires are color coded for each speaker and the polarity as well (same colors that are on the radio harness to make life easy) That way the amplified signal runs from the amp, through the speed wire, and into the factory wires to each speaker. This is how it would be done in a professional shop, they would not run new wires to each speaker unless there was either a problem with the wiring, or you were running absolutely absurd amounts of power into each door.


there are some ok JVC radios, i dont have that exact one, but i do actually own an earlier version of it, its ok, not great. pandora integration is mediocre and the OS is kinda sluggish but it is a perfectly functional radio and ive had it for several years. given your price range, i would personally look at a pioneer avic 5201 nex, it includes GPS, which is very good (i own a 8201 NEX, which is basically the same radio with more bling) and its only about 50 bucks more than your price point new. They are excellent radios.


as for the dash tweeters, firstly, tweeters next to the windshield are just not a great thing from an acoustics perspective in the first place, so losing them would not really hurt you, and given your setup i would actually disconnect them were i to do your install, as you will have tweeters in the woofer in the door that will be in a better location for sound quality. However, they are wired in parallel with the woofers and so they should still work, but i will admit i am not 100% sure. I feel like i have never seen a GM truck lose tweeters after an install like this though.

also, a note on amplifier power. Im sure the person at crutchfield was very helpful, and generally they get pretty close to the ball park, however they are usually not installers and usually do not have any actual real world experience, at least from my conversations with them. So bearing that in mind, the amplifiers that you linked above, the 300 RMS RF mono block and the 500 RMS JL mono block are almost identical in output. That is because in order to double the "loudness" of a speaker you need to increase its power by 10 times, not 2 times like you would think. the decibel scale is logarithmic not liner. in order to even tell the difference in perceived volume you need to double the power, so from 300 to 500 is not even a 3 decibel increase in volume, no point to upgrade the amp unless you are in a sealed box. In a sealed box, you need more power to move the speaker because it has to push / pull against a vacuum or pressure in the box. So for the same "volume" a sealed box needs more power. I do not think you have enough power for a sealed box with either amp to be honest.


this is nine wire if you want to get some. i would highly recommend it.

https://www.amazon.com/Metra-MC918-20-20-Feet-Nine-Conductor-Multi-Use/dp/B004H1KAMQ/ref=pd_cp_23_1?pd_rd_w=tQgyd&pf_rd_p=ef4dc990-a9ca-4945-ae0b-f8d549198ed6&pf_rd_r=85QY2VRR1HFJXAKEWWEE&pd_rd_r=901e2fca-bf6a-4464-a212-74d64d5e06de&pd_rd_wg=HGfGH&pd_rd_i=B004H1KAMQ&psc=1&refRID=85QY2VRR1HFJXAKEWWEE


as for your speakers, i dont like those polks, but the generation before them that you have are quite good. I feel like material quality took a hit after the series you have. I had those same speakers in my old truck for years before i switched them to Pioneer D series speakers (again, older models are built better than current).


Edit: if you mount the amp to the back wall behind the seat back, you should not run it in 1 ohm mode, the 3 decibel increase in power from the sub is not worth the extra heat behind the seat killing your amp. Most amps are not 1 ohm stable, however some JL and RF amps are. there's more to a good audio system than max power, unless your trying to compete in SPL competitions.
This is some great stuff. Again, thank you for taking the time to reply.

I am shocked I have never heard of this 9 wire before. If I follow you correctly, would I run RCA cables from the radio to the amp, and then use 9 wire from the amp back up to the connector behind the radio for the truck? So the radio wouldn't plug into the harness, but the 9 wire would go into the truck harness? is 18 gauge enough to handle 200 watts on each wire? I know that is peak, so RMS would be lower.. but still slightly concerned. Would factory speaker wiring setup hold that power as well?

If that is the case, then hell yeah I will be amplifying the door speakers too, because that is easy as hell. How would I connect the wires from the back of the radio that need to go directly into the harness in the truck? Like illumination, parking brake, etc etc. That seems a little more tricky.

Did you take a look at that JL Stealthbox by chance? It is expensive, but I really think it would be worth it.

I agree, I wouldn't be running and screws into the cab. I like the idea of an MDF board probably carpeted to match, and mount it securely behind the seats, preferably low in the cab to afford a bit more breathing room.

pioneer avic 5201 nex won't work for me, I need Android Auto. Preferably wireless as well. I have too many damn cords already hahaha. I don't want built in navigation for the simple fact that it always needs updating, and has poor traffic information. Google maps is updated much better and always has traffic, which is why I figured Android Auto wireless would be perfect for it to mirror my phone's GPS. Thoughts on that?

If the tweeters on the B pillar are worthless, then I will probably invest in two way speakers for all 4 doors then. And, if that is the case, then I am not limited to Polk per sey, but my amp will be that Polk amp I already have and listed above.

Good to know about the amp power output. I really like my Rockford amp because of the bass nob convenience. I will stick with that amp. The JL Stealthbox is a sealed box with a 10W3v3-D2, nominal impedance: 4 ohms. continuous power handling is 300 watts.
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)

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This is some great stuff. Again, thank you for taking the time to reply.

I am shocked I have never heard of this 9 wire before. If I follow you correctly, would I run RCA cables from the radio to the amp, and then use 9 wire from the amp back up to the connector behind the radio for the truck? So the radio wouldn't plug into the harness, but the 9 wire would go into the truck harness? is 18 gauge enough to handle 200 watts on each wire? I know that is peak, so RMS would be lower.. but still slightly concerned. Would factory speaker wiring setup hold that power as well?

your only running 50 watts per speaker not 200, so the wiring is fine, AC does not require as large of wire as DC does anyway. You are correct in your understanding of the wiring though. but ill clarify the wiring at the radio harness to be safe. Your average wattage is also a lot lower than RMS max power unless your playing test tones as music.

The radio plug will not have any of its speaker wires used, you will connect the red, yellow, black and blue/white wires off the radio and cap the rest. those wires will connect to the pac harness, and your nine wire will connect to the speaker wires that plug into the pac module or they can be hard wired into the factory wiring at the factory plug. so your running low level from the deck to the amp, and high level back from the amp to the factory radio harness (the one BEHIND the radio basket, do not connect the amplified wires to the bose input harness that the factory radio plugs into.

If that is the case, then hell yeah I will be amplifying the door speakers too, because that is easy as hell. How would I connect the wires from the back of the radio that need to go directly into the harness in the truck? Like illumination, parking brake, etc etc. That seems a little more tricky.

the pac harness you have will integrate all of that for you, just connect the wires to the pac harness, and leave the speaker wires on the deck disconnected.

Did you take a look at that JL Stealthbox by chance? It is expensive, but I really think it would be worth it.

I have not worked with very much JL hardware to be honest, i dont really have an opinion on it one way or the other.

I agree, I wouldn't be running and screws into the cab. I like the idea of an MDF board probably carpeted to match, and mount it securely behind the seats, preferably low in the cab to afford a bit more breathing room.

pioneer avic 5201 nex won't work for me, I need Android Auto. Preferably wireless as well. I have too many damn cords already hahaha. I don't want built in navigation for the simple fact that it always needs updating, and has poor traffic information. Google maps is updated much better and always has traffic, which is why I figured Android Auto wireless would be perfect for it to mirror my phone's GPS. Thoughts on that?

roads dont really change that often, but thats fine, the GPS built into that radio is quite good though. If you do not want the GPS you can do the 4000 series radio instead, it supports android auto (im almost positive the 5000 series does as well though), though i dont know if its wireless or not.

If the tweeters on the B pillar are worthless, then I will probably invest in two way speakers for all 4 doors then. And, if that is the case, then I am not limited to Polk per sey, but my amp will be that Polk amp I already have and listed above.

dont waste the money, you could leave the rear speakers disconnected and barely notice it. If you want to get fancy and the amp supports the high pass filtering for it you could bi amp the front speakers and run the rears on deck power for even more power to the front speakers. but doing it the way your already planning will work well, you do not need components in the rear and i would not recommend it to a customer, extra cost, extra work, virtually no gain.

Good to know about the amp power output. I really like my Rockford amp because of the bass nob convenience. I will stick with that amp. The JL Stealthbox is a sealed box with a 10W3v3-D2, nominal impedance: 4 ohms. continuous power handling is 300 watts.
300 watts seems really low for a sealed box, keep in mind that you would need a 600 watt rated amp to drive that at 4 ohms, the 300 you have is at 2 ohms which is 150 watts at 4.
 

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your only running 50 watts per speaker not 200, so the wiring is fine, AC does not require as large of wire as DC does anyway. You are correct in your understanding of the wiring though. but ill clarify the wiring at the radio harness to be safe. Your average wattage is also a lot lower than RMS max power unless your playing test tones as music.

The radio plug will not have any of its speaker wires used, you will connect the red, yellow, black and blue/white wires off the radio and cap the rest. those wires will connect to the pac harness, and your nine wire will connect to the speaker wires that plug into the pac module or they can be hard wired into the factory wiring at the factory plug. so your running low level from the deck to the amp, and high level back from the amp to the factory radio harness (the one BEHIND the radio basket, do not connect the amplified wires to the bose input harness that the factory radio plugs into.

the pac harness you have will integrate all of that for you, just connect the wires to the pac harness, and leave the speaker wires on the deck disconnected.

I have not worked with very much JL hardware to be honest, i dont really have an opinion on it one way or the other.

roads dont really change that often, but thats fine, the GPS built into that radio is quite good though. If you do not want the GPS you can do the 4000 series radio instead, it supports android auto (im almost positive the 5000 series does as well though), though i dont know if its wireless or not.

dont waste the money, you could leave the rear speakers disconnected and barely notice it. If you want to get fancy and the amp supports the high pass filtering for it you could bi amp the front speakers and run the rears on deck power for even more power to the front speakers. but doing it the way your already planning will work well, you do not need components in the rear and i would not recommend it to a customer, extra cost, extra work, virtually no gain.

300 watts seems really low for a sealed box, keep in mind that you would need a 600 watt rated amp to drive that at 4 ohms, the 300 you have is at 2 ohms which is 150 watts at 4.
Are you sure about the Polk amp? I am pretty sure this amp is 200 RMS to each speaker at 2 ohms. If I buy 4 ohm speakers, Polk's website says it is 125w to each speaker.
https://www.polkaudio.com/products/pad4000

Thanks for explaining the 9 wire. I am definitely going to run that now. That is so kick-ass!

I am now looking at the Pioneer AVH-W4500NEX at your recommendation. It's $700 bucks though.. ouch. This one is Android Auto wireless and Carplay wireless.

as I am looking at speakers.. You mentioned you have the Pioneer D series. Crutchfield has the Pioneer TS-D65F speakers for $120 a pair. I was thinking if I do this, I would buy two sets. The other speakers at the same price range are JL Audio C1-650x with great reviews. I don't know which ones would be better?

Crutchfield says that the JL Stealthbox is wired as a 2 ohm load at the terminal, and has a continuous power handling of 300 watts. The amp I have has a certificate of performance document.. and it has a total power rating of 445 watts at 2 ohms. I am guessing "total power" means peak power? if peak is 445w, what do you think RMS power is?

Again, thank you for your help navigating all of this!!
 

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Are you sure about the Polk amp? I am pretty sure this amp is 200 RMS to each speaker at 2 ohms. If I buy 4 ohm speakers, Polk's website says it is 125w to each speaker.
https://www.polkaudio.com/products/pad4000

Thanks for explaining the 9 wire. I am definitely going to run that now. That is so kick-ass!

I am now looking at the Pioneer AVH-W4500NEX at your recommendation. It's $700 bucks though.. ouch. This one is Android Auto wireless and Carplay wireless.

as I am looking at speakers.. You mentioned you have the Pioneer D series. Crutchfield has the Pioneer TS-D65F speakers for $120 a pair. I was thinking if I do this, I would buy two sets. The other speakers at the same price range are JL Audio C1-650x with great reviews. I don't know which ones would be better?

I like the pioneer speakers because they seem to have less bias than other speakers, the polks tend to be a little warmer in in tone with more lows and mids, but they dont excel in the highs. The JL's seem to be very tinny to me, i dont personally like how high focused they are. That said, it largely depends on what your listening to. If you listen to EDM, dubstep, etc, you would probably be better off with the JLs, if you listem mostly to classic rock, or similar music with a lot of guitar the polks will probably sound really good, and if you want something that covers everything well but doesent really do any one particular thing great, the pioneers would be my choice. For me, i listen to a lot of different types of music, so i prefer the pioneers because to me they seem to sound good for pretty much everything. If you listen to rock music, you may even want to consider some kicker speakers, there usually cheaper and are quite good for the cost with a lot of lows to fill in the fall off of your sub. Note, this paragraph is highly subjective. When in doubt, go to a local shop that has a demo wall and just listen to some different speakers and see what you like. If you already have the JL speakers though, which it sounds like you did from the first post, i would just use those and see how you like them. There so easy to replace on these trucks you may as well try them first and change them if you dont like them.

Crutchfield says that the JL Stealthbox is wired as a 2 ohm load at the terminal, and has a continuous power handling of 300 watts. The amp I have has a certificate of performance document.. and it has a total power rating of 445 watts at 2 ohms. I am guessing "total power" means peak power? if peak is 445w, what do you think RMS power is?

If that is the peak power then the RMS power is roughly 445 / sqrt(2) or about 300 watts RMS, note that some amplifiers (kicker does this for sure) will include a "birth certificate" that shows the max RMS power, this is different than the rated power on the box. The box advertises what the amplifier is designed to output at a minimum across all amplifiers produced. Individual models may vary slightly from unit to unit due to variances in capacitors and transistors so a amp that is listed at 300 RMS may actually test at 340 RMS, which would be whats printed on the certificate as that particular amplifiers rated power without clipping at 14.4 volts. Also be aware that some manufacturers will rate products at higher voltages, boss, pyle, and all the other crap brands are likely doing this. It doesent matter if the amp makes 10,000 watts at 200 volts input for a quarter second if your truck is only supplying the amp with 14.4 volts.

Again, thank you for your help navigating all of this!!


oh, no sorry i thought it was a 200.4 not a 4000.4, your correct, Im pretty sure that wiring would still be fine, however you are starting to reach the power levels where it might be worth upgrading it if you like it loud.

That is a seriously large amount of power to be running for the door speakers. A, B, and AB amplifiers are very inefficient with power usage, some as low as 50% efficiency, that means that to make 800 watts RMS (200 per speaker) you would consume 1600 watts of power and 800 watts would get radiated as heat. As previously mentioned there are significant diminishing returns on power investment, so unless you want to complete in SPL competitions, it might be better for the truck and your speakers to get a smaller amp. For example, were you to run an amp that put out 100 watts per speaker, it would consume half the power, and create half the waste heat, and you only lose 3 dB of output, 50 watts per speaker quarters your power consumption and dissipation and only reduces your power by 6 dB. a change of less that 3 dB is not detectable to the human ear, and a change of 3 db is the minimum that is detectable.

so were you to run a 200.4 at 50 watts per speaker, it would consume on the high end 400 watts and waste 200 as heat. that 400 watts translates to 28 amps from the alternator.

were you to run the 4000.4 (which based on its specs appears to be roughly 800 watts RMS on a good day, not 4000) your 1600 watts of input is now 111 amps, which would basically require its own alternator to run at full duty cycle and would likely require you to step up a wire gauge on the install kit.

for the math above i used the worst case efficiency of 50%, most amps are not that inefficient but its safer to calculate on the high end.

I would often find myself talking customers down to smaller amplifiers for the above reasons. While we have more overhead in our alternators than a honda civic or something, we dont have hundreds of extra amps laying around. This is when you start running into issues with lights dimming and you could even under extreme situations run your batteries down while playing music with the engine running (like in a parking lot) and the truck would actually shut off at some point. I had to explain this to a guy running like 5000 watts off a honda civic go kart battery and stock alternator. I would not recommend to anyone that they go over 80-100 amps total current draw on the system unless they have upgraded alternator(s) and good batteries. Under normal use listening to normal music your probably only pulling 20-30% of the total power the system is rated for, which the stock alternator can usually do no problem, and your batteries are the reserves for the heavy hits of bass where your input current spikes. without upgraded alternators for high power audio build your batteries are going to get hammered on constantly and it will shorten there life and the alternators as well. You may also see a slight decrease in MPG on newer trucks as the alternator will be active more of the time than normal increasing the load on the engine when cruising on the highway.

If you have dual alternators, you could go higher, but if you just have a single stocker id keep it conservative and your truck will thank you for it in the long run. Lastly, a big 3 is a must with the kind of current you will be running should you choose to go with that monster amp.
 

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I like the pioneer speakers because they seem to have less bias than other speakers, the polks tend to be a little warmer in in tone with more lows and mids, but they dont excel in the highs. The JL's seem to be very tinny to me, i dont personally like how high focused they are. That said, it largely depends on what your listening to. If you listen to EDM, dubstep, etc, you would probably be better off with the JLs, if you listem mostly to classic rock, or similar music with a lot of guitar the polks will probably sound really good, and if you want something that covers everything well but doesent really do any one particular thing great, the pioneers would be my choice. For me, i listen to a lot of different types of music, so i prefer the pioneers because to me they seem to sound good for pretty much everything. If you listen to rock music, you may even want to consider some kicker speakers, there usually cheaper and are quite good for the cost with a lot of lows to fill in the fall off of your sub. Note, this paragraph is highly subjective. When in doubt, go to a local shop that has a demo wall and just listen to some different speakers and see what you like. If you already have the JL speakers though, which it sounds like you did from the first post, i would just use those and see how you like them. There so easy to replace on these trucks you may as well try them first and change them if you dont like them.

If that is the peak power then the RMS power is roughly 445 / sqrt(2) or about 300 watts RMS, note that some amplifiers (kicker does this for sure) will include a "birth certificate" that shows the max RMS power, this is different than the rated power on the box. The box advertises what the amplifier is designed to output at a minimum across all amplifiers produced. Individual models may vary slightly from unit to unit due to variances in capacitors and transistors so a amp that is listed at 300 RMS may actually test at 340 RMS, which would be whats printed on the certificate as that particular amplifiers rated power without clipping at 14.4 volts. Also be aware that some manufacturers will rate products at higher voltages, boss, pyle, and all the other crap brands are likely doing this. It doesent matter if the amp makes 10,000 watts at 200 volts input for a quarter second if your truck is only supplying the amp with 14.4 volts.

oh, no sorry i thought it was a 200.4 not a 4000.4, your correct, Im pretty sure that wiring would still be fine, however you are starting to reach the power levels where it might be worth upgrading it if you like it loud.

That is a seriously large amount of power to be running for the door speakers. A, B, and AB amplifiers are very inefficient with power usage, some as low as 50% efficiency, that means that to make 800 watts RMS (200 per speaker) you would consume 1600 watts of power and 800 watts would get radiated as heat. As previously mentioned there are significant diminishing returns on power investment, so unless you want to complete in SPL competitions, it might be better for the truck and your speakers to get a smaller amp. For example, were you to run an amp that put out 100 watts per speaker, it would consume half the power, and create half the waste heat, and you only lose 3 dB of output, 50 watts per speaker quarters your power consumption and dissipation and only reduces your power by 6 dB. a change of less that 3 dB is not detectable to the human ear, and a change of 3 db is the minimum that is detectable.

so were you to run a 200.4 at 50 watts per speaker, it would consume on the high end 400 watts and waste 200 as heat. that 400 watts translates to 28 amps from the alternator.

were you to run the 4000.4 (which based on its specs appears to be roughly 800 watts RMS on a good day, not 4000) your 1600 watts of input is now 111 amps, which would basically require its own alternator to run at full duty cycle and would likely require you to step up a wire gauge on the install kit.

for the math above i used the worst case efficiency of 50%, most amps are not that inefficient but its safer to calculate on the high end.

I would often find myself talking customers down to smaller amplifiers for the above reasons. While we have more overhead in our alternators than a honda civic or something, we dont have hundreds of extra amps laying around. This is when you start running into issues with lights dimming and you could even under extreme situations run your batteries down while playing music with the engine running (like in a parking lot) and the truck would actually shut off at some point. I had to explain this to a guy running like 5000 watts off a honda civic go kart battery and stock alternator. I would not recommend to anyone that they go over 80-100 amps total current draw on the system unless they have upgraded alternator(s) and good batteries. Under normal use listening to normal music your probably only pulling 20-30% of the total power the system is rated for, which the stock alternator can usually do no problem, and your batteries are the reserves for the heavy hits of bass where your input current spikes. without upgraded alternators for high power audio build your batteries are going to get hammered on constantly and it will shorten there life and the alternators as well. You may also see a slight decrease in MPG on newer trucks as the alternator will be active more of the time than normal increasing the load on the engine when cruising on the highway.

If you have dual alternators, you could go higher, but if you just have a single stocker id keep it conservative and your truck will thank you for it in the long run. Lastly, a big 3 is a must with the kind of current you will be running should you choose to go with that monster amp.
Thank you for your thoughts on speakers. I listen to mostly country, some rock, and occasionally throw in some hip hop. At the end of the day, I listen to all kinds of music though. So, it probably means the Pioneers will be where it's at for me. I really like the yellow cones in the JLs, but color doesn't make the speaker matched to what I like. I currently only have those Kenwood component speakers, but I am not going to use them as the tweeters in the windshield are not ideal.

Those Pioneers handle 90w RMS, and are 4 ohm speakers. Would I be ok to turn down the Polk amp to push these Pioneers? The Polk amp will be at a 4 ohm load so only 125w per speaker allegedly.

If this Polk amp won't work properly, which amp would you recommend for the 4 channels?

When you talk about the system draw on the vehicle.. it got me thinking. I was running this setup in my 97 Silverado, and I never had any charging issues. I also don't listed to the radio cranked, either, as I don't want to be deaf when I am old. I probably run my volume at 10 -25% if I had to guess. Does that change any of your calculations?

I forgot that I also have a 1 farad capacitor that I had wired into my previous system, and will reuse with this truck.

I have just a single 145 amp alternator. Brand new AC Delco batteries. I don't remember the size of the power wire I have, but it is pretty big. I ran 1 wire to the amps and split it off at the capacitor so both amps could draw from the capacitor.

I must admit, I am getting pretty excited to start this build! I am trying to reuse what I can, but if it doesn't work it doesn't work. I can try to sell the pieces I can't use to help pay for the new pieces I can use.
 

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Thank you for your thoughts on speakers. I listen to mostly country, some rock, and occasionally throw in some hip hop. At the end of the day, I listen to all kinds of music though. So, it probably means the Pioneers will be where it's at for me. I really like the yellow cones in the JLs, but color doesn't make the speaker matched to what I like. I currently only have those Kenwood component speakers, but I am not going to use them as the tweeters in the windshield are not ideal.

Those Pioneers handle 90w RMS, and are 4 ohm speakers. Would I be ok to turn down the Polk amp to push these Pioneers? The Polk amp will be at a 4 ohm load so only 125w per speaker allegedly.

I would not, the gain setting does not really limit power. while it does on average reduce the power the amp outputs, it does not have any hard limit, so were you to get some really lousy audio that caused a lot of clipping you could still damage the speakers with that amp.


If this Polk amp won't work properly, which amp would you recommend for the 4 channels?

i would go for something in the 50 watt per speaker range. trust me, plenty of power especially if you dont crank it up normally. 50 watts per speaker is enough power to make your truck obnoxiously loud inside. I like Kicker amplifiers, they seem to be the best bang for your buck and there layout makes sense. Honorable mention goes out to alpine and rockford. You can get more expensive amps but if for 99.9% of people theres no reason to drop the money on focal, rainbow ect.

When you talk about the system draw on the vehicle.. it got me thinking. I was running this setup in my 97 Silverado, and I never had any charging issues. I also don't listed to the radio cranked, either, as I don't want to be deaf when I am old. I probably run my volume at 10 -25% if I had to guess. Does that change any of your calculations?

sort of, lowering the volume you play the music at will lower the average current draw of the system, however the system still has the capability to draw the full load under certain situations. I dont personally like to build a system that the user has to consciously keep safe, i prefer building systems that are safe under all situations so that the user doesent have the ability to seriously damage anything without being stupid.

I forgot that I also have a 1 farad capacitor that I had wired into my previous system, and will reuse with this truck.

it wont hurt you, but it also wont really help you, capacitors are largely hype. They drain so fast that there they just dont really help. You would need a very large capacitor to make a difference. a better alternative would be to put a high quality starting battery very close to the amplifier instead, but thats not really an option for us.

I have just a single 145 amp alternator. Brand new AC Delco batteries. I don't remember the size of the power wire I have, but it is pretty big. I ran 1 wire to the amps and split it off at the capacitor so both amps could draw from the capacitor.

That works, a different way of doing that, were you to leave the capacitor out would be distribution blocks, many of them also allow you to re-fuse the wire to each amp for added protection.

I must admit, I am getting pretty excited to start this build! I am trying to reuse what I can, but if it doesn't work it doesn't work. I can try to sell the pieces I can't use to help pay for the new pieces I can use.
at the end of the day you can make anything work, it becomes a question of is it something you want to stress about and is it something you want to spend hours or days fiddling with to get "right".
 

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Are you sure about the Polk amp? I am pretty sure this amp is 200 RMS to each speaker at 2 ohms. If I buy 4 ohm speakers, Polk's website says it is 125w to each speaker.
https://www.polkaudio.com/products/pad4000

Thanks for explaining the 9 wire. I am definitely going to run that now. That is so kick-ass!

I am now looking at the Pioneer AVH-W4500NEX at your recommendation. It's $700 bucks though.. ouch. This one is Android Auto wireless and Carplay wireless.

as I am looking at speakers.. You mentioned you have the Pioneer D series. Crutchfield has the Pioneer TS-D65F speakers for $120 a pair. I was thinking if I do this, I would buy two sets. The other speakers at the same price range are JL Audio C1-650x with great reviews. I don't know which ones would be better?

Crutchfield says that the JL Stealthbox is wired as a 2 ohm load at the terminal, and has a continuous power handling of 300 watts. The amp I have has a certificate of performance document.. and it has a total power rating of 445 watts at 2 ohms. I am guessing "total power" means peak power? if peak is 445w, what do you think RMS power is?

Again, thank you for your help navigating all of this!!
I did the AVH-X4500BT a number of years ago and it has been an outstanding performing unit. Bluetooth functions better on this that what I get from most rental cars I get. They are not cheap but excellent quality and performance. I did not add the navigation. I either use my Garmin Zumo or the Iphone for when I need that. Crutchfield is the only place I would get car audio equipment. I added the recommended interface box from them so there is not check engine indications and I have full function from my steering wheel inputs. Even managed to bypass the safety for the DVD playing so the kids can what a movie while driving. I still used the factory speakers but add a Kenwood power amp that is mounted under the back seat. Maybe at some point I will change the speakers out but so far this system does everything I was looking for. A newer unit that has Iplay or Android Play on it would be a nice addition. Dean
 

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I would not, the gain setting does not really limit power. while it does on average reduce the power the amp outputs, it does not have any hard limit, so were you to get some really lousy audio that caused a lot of clipping you could still damage the speakers with that amp.

i would go for something in the 50 watt per speaker range. trust me, plenty of power especially if you dont crank it up normally. 50 watts per speaker is enough power to make your truck obnoxiously loud inside. I like Kicker amplifiers, they seem to be the best bang for your buck and there layout makes sense. Honorable mention goes out to alpine and rockford. You can get more expensive amps but if for 99.9% of people theres no reason to drop the money on focal, rainbow ect.

sort of, lowering the volume you play the music at will lower the average current draw of the system, however the system still has the capability to draw the full load under certain situations. I dont personally like to build a system that the user has to consciously keep safe, i prefer building systems that are safe under all situations so that the user doesent have the ability to seriously damage anything without being stupid.

it wont hurt you, but it also wont really help you, capacitors are largely hype. They drain so fast that there they just dont really help. You would need a very large capacitor to make a difference. a better alternative would be to put a high quality starting battery very close to the amplifier instead, but thats not really an option for us.

That works, a different way of doing that, were you to leave the capacitor out would be distribution blocks, many of them also allow you to re-fuse the wire to each amp for added protection.

at the end of the day you can make anything work, it becomes a question of is it something you want to stress about and is it something you want to spend hours or days fiddling with to get "right".
okie dokie.

I think I will do the Rockford Fosgate Punch P400X4 for the speakers. It matches my subwoofer amp I already have.

I figured out I have 4 gauge power wire with a 60 amp fuse, that's what ran the last system. I ran that to the capacitor, and then an 8 gauge wire to each amp. In essence I guess it worked as a distribution block, but without another fuse going from the cap to the amp. The amps have their own fuses on them, would I need another inline fuse from the cap to the amp?

I think I almost have this system built! Now I just need to figure out how to pay for it.. :surprise:
 

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I did the AVH-X4500BT a number of years ago and it has been an outstanding performing unit. Bluetooth functions better on this that what I get from most rental cars I get. They are not cheap but excellent quality and performance. I did not add the navigation. I either use my Garmin Zumo or the Iphone for when I need that. Crutchfield is the only place I would get car audio equipment. I added the recommended interface box from them so there is not check engine indications and I have full function from my steering wheel inputs. Even managed to bypass the safety for the DVD playing so the kids can what a movie while driving. I still used the factory speakers but add a Kenwood power amp that is mounted under the back seat. Maybe at some point I will change the speakers out but so far this system does everything I was looking for. A newer unit that has Iplay or Android Play on it would be a nice addition. Dean
Thanks for chiming in!

I might like you, do this in stages. Head unit and speakers first.. and then later add the JL sub and amp the door speakers. This is all so expensive!!

I will also do the adapter so my steering wheel controls work.. I use them a lot.
 

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okie dokie.

I think I will do the Rockford Fosgate Punch P400X4 for the speakers. It matches my subwoofer amp I already have.

I figured out I have 4 gauge power wire with a 60 amp fuse, that's what ran the last system. I ran that to the capacitor, and then an 8 gauge wire to each amp. In essence I guess it worked as a distribution block, but without another fuse going from the cap to the amp. The amps have their own fuses on them, would I need another inline fuse from the cap to the amp?

I think I almost have this system built! Now I just need to figure out how to pay for it.. :surprise:


Need is a strong word... Technically any time you down size wire gauge you should re-fuse the new wire. However since the run from the cap to the amp is probably like 2 feet at most, that 2 feet of 8 gauge wire can take more current than your 20 feet of 4 gauge wire, so the 60 amp fuse would be sufficient to protect both wires in this case. Were the 8 gauge wire to be significantly longer you would want to re-fuse it though for sure.

It is not common to see a 4 gauge wire with a 60 amp fuse. was the fuse replaced? Typically an actual 4 AWG OFC (American Wire Gauge Oxygen Free Copper) cable will come with a 100 amp fuse and is even reasonably safe a little over that depending on the total length of the wire run. you should inspect the jacket of the cable and look specifically for the term AWG.

Wire manufacturers can legally sell any size wire as any gauge they like (at least in the automotive world) so long as they are using there own proprietary definition of "gauge" however if it is listed as 4 AWG instead of 4 G it must comply with the AWG standards and there is a set minimum wire diameter for the conductor.

You also want to make sure its pure copper and not aluminum or CCA (copper clad aluminum) as the aluminum wire cant carry as much current due to higher resistance. This also causes more voltage drop before the amp which will limit your power input.

TLDR, make sure your wire kit is good quality because based on the fuse size installed it might be some questionable offshore junk.

It is not uncommon to use capacitors as a junction block for the amps wiring, i just dont use capacitors, so therefor, i use distribution blocks.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Need is a strong word... Technically any time you down size wire gauge you should re-fuse the new wire. However since the run from the cap to the amp is probably like 2 feet at most, that 2 feet of 8 gauge wire can take more current than your 20 feet of 4 gauge wire, so the 60 amp fuse would be sufficient to protect both wires in this case. Were the 8 gauge wire to be significantly longer you would want to re-fuse it though for sure.

It is not common to see a 4 gauge wire with a 60 amp fuse. was the fuse replaced? Typically an actual 4 AWG OFC (American Wire Gauge Oxygen Free Copper) cable will come with a 100 amp fuse and is even reasonably safe a little over that depending on the total length of the wire run. you should inspect the jacket of the cable and look specifically for the term AWG.

Wire manufacturers can legally sell any size wire as any gauge they like (at least in the automotive world) so long as they are using there own proprietary definition of "gauge" however if it is listed as 4 AWG instead of 4 G it must comply with the AWG standards and there is a set minimum wire diameter for the conductor.

You also want to make sure its pure copper and not aluminum or CCA (copper clad aluminum) as the aluminum wire cant carry as much current due to higher resistance. This also causes more voltage drop before the amp which will limit your power input.

TLDR, make sure your wire kit is good quality because based on the fuse size installed it might be some questionable offshore junk.

It is not uncommon to use capacitors as a junction block for the amps wiring, i just dont use capacitors, so therefor, i use distribution blocks.
the 4 guage wire is Rockford Fosgate kit, and it says " Full US specification CEA-2006 compliant AWG 4"

The 8 guage wire is "Streetwires originals powerstream 8 car audio connectology manufactureed by esoteric audio usa"

If I remember correctly, I did some math when I installed this system and concluded I needed a smaller fuse, therefore I put in the 60 amp fuse. But this was 3-4 years ago, so I don't really remember.
 
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