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Discussion Starter #1
Many years ago I had a buddy that installed dual oil filters on his Roadrunner. I thought it seemed silly at the time and never thought much more about it. Then I was reading the oil filter shoot-out (still reading it) about some guy that wired up a switch to the oil filter internal bypass valve. This was connected to a light in the cab that would indicate if the bypass was open or closed.

Long story short, the bypass was open much more often than he first imagined, especially after ~2500 KM which is way less miles that most of us run between filter changes.

Reading this got me thinking abt filter media surface area, filtering efficiency, after market high press/volume oil pumps and abt a million other things. One reader pointed out that a high efficiency filter that captures finer particles may wind up bypassing sooner than a filter with lower efficiency.

All this brings me back to the dual filter set-up seen many moons ago as this seems to be about the only practical way help prevent oil filter bypassing.

I haven't seen or heard of anyone using this set-up on their Max. Are they even available for our trucks? Anyone running this kind of set-up? Thoughts?
 

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They are not very common on the Duramax platform because it is pretty easy on oil, but they do exist. There are a few companies that make them, but the only one I know off the top of my head is Amsoil.
 

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Many years ago I had a buddy that installed dual oil filters on his Roadrunner. I thought it seemed silly at the time and never thought much more about it. Then I was reading the oil filter shoot-out (still reading it) about some guy that wired up a switch to the oil filter internal bypass valve. This was connected to a light in the cab that would indicate if the bypass was open or closed.

Long story short, the bypass was open much more often than he first imagined, especially after ~2500 KM which is way less miles that most of us run between filter changes.

Reading this got me thinking abt filter media surface area, filtering efficiency, after market high press/volume oil pumps and abt a million other things. One reader pointed out that a high efficiency filter that captures finer particles may wind up bypassing sooner than a filter with lower efficiency.

All this brings me back to the dual filter set-up seen many moons ago as this seems to be about the only practical way help prevent oil filter bypassing.

I haven't seen or heard of anyone using this set-up on their Max. Are they even available for our trucks? Anyone running this kind of set-up? Thoughts?





https://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/filters-and-by-pass-systems/by-pass/filters-and-mounts/universal-dual-remote-bypass-system/?code=BMK23&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI8q6-vNqp5gIVi-NkCh1ZZQfuEAQYASABEgKiYvD_BwE


like that?


there is also this type of bypass filter.



https://www.xtremediesel.com/ppe-114010200-oil-centrifuge-filtration-kit?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIgMHZ5Nqp5gIVZyCtBh0R_grxEAQYBCABEgIOSvD_BwE
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Not sure what you mean abt our engs being easy on oil. Maybe in regards to sheering and oxidation, but not so sure abt contamination (I.E. soot) which IMHO would be the main concern in regards to internal filter bypass opening.

The Amsoil set-up looks a lot like what I was thinking about but after reading the description, it appears one filter cleans ~10% and the other filter cleans the remaining ~90% (on a single pass). However, with more total square inches of media it should help prevent internal filter bypass from opening. I still tend to believe 2 regular filters would go a little longer before bypassing, but there's still some unknown variables comparing the two set-ups.

Not sure what to think abt the PPE centrifuge set-up. It's not clear to me if that replaces the OEM filter, or works in series/parallel with OEM filter. Also not clear if it even incorporates an internal bypass valve.
That 100nm filtration level they advertise may also wind up removing the beneficial additives the oil manuf added??
 

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Discussion Starter #6
To the OP theres a thread also that Bob is testing a larger commercial type donaldson Filter. same concept beating the bypass issue with larger filter media etc...

sorry if i'm missing the boat, just what I think you were talking about...

https://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/maintenance/994055-lml-donaldson-dbl7483-oil-filter-conversion.html
Sorry I missed your reply. I got called to dinner while I was typing my last reply.

I missed that thread. That's exactly what I wanted to see. A simple effective solution. Didn't realize there was a "no bypass valve" filter option. Thanks!

Thank you Bob for everything you have contributed. Anxiously awaiting your oil analysis results.
Cheers!
 

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Not sure what you mean abt our engs being easy on oil. Maybe in regards to sheering and oxidation, but not so sure abt contamination (I.E. soot) which IMHO would be the main concern in regards to internal filter bypass opening.
Plenty of people on this forum go 20k+ miles on the same oil with OEM style filtration and with continuously good oil analysis, I'd say that's pretty easy on oil.
 

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Not sure what you mean abt our engs being easy on oil. Maybe in regards to sheering and oxidation, but not so sure abt contamination (I.E. soot) which IMHO would be the main concern in regards to internal filter bypass opening.

The Amsoil set-up looks a lot like what I was thinking about but after reading the description, it appears one filter cleans ~10% and the other filter cleans the remaining ~90% (on a single pass). However, with more total square inches of media it should help prevent internal filter bypass from opening. I still tend to believe 2 regular filters would go a little longer before bypassing, but there's still some unknown variables comparing the two set-ups.

Not sure what to think abt the PPE centrifuge set-up. It's not clear to me if that replaces the OEM filter, or works in series/parallel with OEM filter. Also not clear if it even incorporates an internal bypass valve.
That 100nm filtration level they advertise may also wind up removing the beneficial additives the oil manuf added??
On the amsoil setup, the high flow filter is there as a standard oil filter to catch the ball bearings. Then the 10% thats drawn off through the other filter does a very fine screening to remove soot and other particulates too small for the high flow filter to clean. adding 2 high flow filters would give you less clean oil (though theoretically longer service life of the filters) then running the amsoil kit. There are guys running this kit that say there oil comes out oil colored instead of black at 10K miles. Not sure i buy that, but that filter will do significantly more to clean the oil then doubling up on factory filters. Also, your oil change interval increases greatly as the soot load in the oil is removed by the bypass filter.

The PPE kit is similar but instead of a filter it spins the oil at high speed and the particulates collect in the bowl to be scraped out later. This is an old design thats been around a LONG time and it does work, though personally i think id rather have the amsoil setup so theres not yet another thing on top of my engine.




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I am getting suspicious that this whole discussion about substituting all manner of modifications to the stock AC oil filter is just a "solution in search of a problem".

We have ample evidence that many after-market oil filters are sub-standard - I certainly wouldn't want to use anything but a GM/Delco/AC filter, either for fuel or oil. At least not at the "consumer grade" level. As others have repeatedly noted, many Duramax motors have gone many hundreds of thousands of miles without oil or fuel related troubles, on "bone stock" service parts.

I am still trying to figure out if I threw my money away by following the suggestion of some in here to go to a "commercial grade" oil filter, such as the Donaldson DBL 7483, or the CAT 1R-1807. ( I personally bought the 'kit" including the nipple adapter and a filter from MDDP ).

And I have not yet found a DIRECT comparison between the above two commercial grade filters.

What I have found is that my engine oil is now remaining clean-looking even after thousands of miles.

I cant discuss WHY that is the case, for fear that the way I have "serviced" my truck recently, I will be singled out for the wholesale murder of billions of cute little fuzzy-chinned bunny wabbets, and held personally responsible for the coming termination of human life here on Planet Earth in ten years......
The two filter setups that i posted are different in function from the filter mod that bob has covered, and that was linked above in this thread.

The filter systems that i linked are designed to remove contamination that would pass through a standard oil filter with ease.

The problem though is that were you to put in a filter the size of ours with a low enough micron rating to catch these particles you would lose flow rate, and clog filters very fast. To allow for a long service life on the filters, and to allow for full oil flow, amsoils kit runs all the oil through the regular style filter that would normally be on our trucks, and takes 10% of that flow and runs it though a low flow high filtration system to scrub that 10% clean. Over time, all the oil in the pan goes through the bypass filter cleaning the soot and other small contaminants out.

The filter you have that bob did the write up for has a similar benefit, though not be design. That filter has a lower micron rating then what would come on our trucks, so oil will flow through it slower, however due to the significantly larger filter media size, you still maintain correct flow rates through a more restrictive filter element getting a kind of "best of both worlds" setup. While the amsoil kit would do a better job cleaning the oil then your filter, its more expensive and requires 2 filters. This is why your oil is staying cleaner longer.

The PPE system installs in addition to the factory filter and performs a similar function to the bypass filter in the amsoil kit.
 

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I run the Amsoil dual bypass setup. My oil comes out black at 11k miles. When i was doing oil analysis I started getting another 2-3K miles recommendation between oil changes after I put in the bypass filter. I run it primarily as insurance to keep the oil a little cleaner, soot is a bad thing for your motor.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Plenty of people on this forum go 20k+ miles on the same oil with OEM style filtration and with continuously good oil analysis, I'd say that's pretty easy on oil.
Hard to argue with oil analysis data. However, that doesn't mean it can't be improved. I'm always on the lookout for a better mouse trap. :grin2:
 

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Wow, look what finally showed up today!



I sent a letter in along with the sample. It explained what I was trying to do and included all the Donaldson specs including the 15 Micron capture size and the zero bypass construction.

It seems to be performing very well, which is to be expected as Semi Trucks log over a million miles running these things. Even the soot count was low.

Thanks to everyone who waited to see these numbers.... SO much easier to install than that Amsoil bypass deal. Nearly all the benefit, with none of the hassle... and its reversible in about 5 minutes on the road if you ever need to go back to stock filtration..... another plus.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
6686L; I would agree with you 99% of the time in regards to using OEM parts. The manuf almost always knows what's best since they spent millions of dollars testing various parts/systems. They still on rare occasions do make big mistakes. Some take a long time to manifest themselves like TC pump rub, LB7 injs for instance or maybe the whole CP4 debacle. I've been around gas motors for a long time but diesels are new for me. Still trying to figure out what's real and what's B/S.

I've yet to form any prejudices for or against the any of the aftermarket manufacturers (except maybe Fram). I'll just follow the data wherever it takes me. I understand your oil colorization may be influenced by variables. I hope to induce some variables myself soon. BTW: It's probably abt 9 1/2 years by now :)


J83; Thx for explaining the details on the Amsoil filtration sys. Is the course filter the same as we run normally (i.e. same thread/sealing surface) or is it something special you would have to buy from Amsoil? If it's special, does it have a bypass valve inside? I agree, I don't want anything else in the eng bay either.
 

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If there IS a benefit to following the advice of others (regarding selecting either of the two above "commercial grade" oil filters) in here in other "threads"....do they actually know...can they discuss it for us?
https://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/maintenance/992549-d-max-2019-oil-filter-shootout.html

Nearly all consumer grade filters are junk and inconsistant in quality and filter in the 30 micron range at 98.7% efficiency.

The Donaldson has 3x the media area, has world class workmanship, and filters at 15 microns at 99.9% efficiency.

You choose what you want to use. I already chose mine.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Wow, look what finally showed up today!



I sent a letter in along with the sample. It explained what I was trying to do and included all the Donaldson specs including the 15 Micron capture size and the zero bypass construction.

It seems to be performing very well, which is to be expected as Semi Trucks log over a million miles running these things. Even the soot count was low.

Thanks to everyone who waited to see these numbers.... SO much easier to install than that Amsoil bypass deal. Nearly all the benefit, with none of the hassle... and its reversible in about 5 minutes on the road if you ever need to go back to stock filtration..... another plus.

Alright! Data looks promising for the big Donaldson. Thx for sharing!
BTW: We use Donaldson air filters at work (semiconductor field). They are the best we've found for removing amines and other solvent fumes.
 

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6686L; I would agree with you 99% of the time in regards to using OEM parts. The manuf almost always knows what's best since they spent millions of dollars testing various parts/systems. They still on rare occasions do make big mistakes. Some take a long time to manifest themselves like TC pump rub, LB7 injs for instance or maybe the whole CP4 debacle. I've been around gas motors for a long time but diesels are new for me. Still trying to figure out what's real and what's B/S.

I've yet to form any prejudices for or against the any of the aftermarket manufacturers (except maybe Fram). I'll just follow the data wherever it takes me. I understand your oil colorization may be influenced by variables. I hope to induce some variables myself soon. BTW: It's probably abt 9 1/2 years by now :)


J83; Thx for explaining the details on the Amsoil filtration sys. Is the course filter the same as we run normally (i.e. same thread/sealing surface) or is it something special you would have to buy from Amsoil? If it's special, does it have a bypass valve inside? I agree, I don't want anything else in the eng bay either.

Im fairly sure the amsoil filters are proprietary but i dont own the kit so im not sure. Personally id probably go the route bob did unless you really need to maximize the service life of the oil, like, say if you were to run 13$/quart oil in your truck...


As for the previous statement about the manufacturer generally knowing whats best. yes and no. The manufacturer has a self interest to serve in that they want to make a profit on there sale. So they are only going to give you hardware that is good enough to get you through the warranty period even if they know there is a better, but likely more expensive material, device, or way of doing something. The CP4 is a great example of value engineering cutting every corner possible. That was a decision made not for the customer, but to keep more money in GM's pocket. While i agree that the ACDelco stuff is in general good quality stuff for average use, i would not go so far as to say OEM is best. For example, the OEM tierods are garbage but there are many aftermarket solutions much better. The same could be said for bobs oil filter. While the ACDelco is a good option, this filter is so far out of the realm of overkill for this truck that it would be silly for GM to use them across the board, however it does appear to be superior in many ways.
 

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Discussion Starter #18 (Edited)
There is a grain of truth to what you say. Corporate managers nowadays only seem to be concerned about the near-term bottom line (I.E. bonuses and promotions) with scant regard to long-term performance. Guess most feel like they won't be in that position long enough that they will have to deal with the repercussions of bad engineering due to management forcing their hands.

Found this article last night. It makes a good argument for upgrading the capture rate of your oil filter and doing what you can to reduce the amount of time the filter is in bypass mode. They reference a study made by GM (AC Delco) that allows for ball-park estimates of time between overhaul for different filter capture rates. There was another article on the same site that talked about soot in diesel eng oil and how it consumes the oil additive that's responsible for keeping small particles from bonding with each other and eventually creating blockage in the oil galleys.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/30697/choose-oil-filter
 

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While oil is a regulated and tested fluid, oil filters are typically not. I think we have all seen the tear downs of different brands and the very different construction, and quality of different ones with our ever present orange brand being the absolute worse. The only one that ever gets tested and has a OEM spec is of course the OEM brand and always a good bet even if it is a couple of more $$. While cleaner oil is obviously a good idea, but I dont think this is a problem and unless you are doing mega miles and cannot change them then I dont see the point.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
The OEM oil filter is a good filter and will most likely get you well past the warranty period. If you change vehicles on a regular basis, OEM will be fine.

I think the point is to push out the time between overhauls as far as possible.
Others like myself, don't foresee ever selling it and want to push overhaul as far out as we can.
 
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