wow, that's amazing power, looks good too, imo.

happy searching, after GM's last bailout, no way i'd be buying a new GM, anything.

 

Everyone's idea of just a little more money is different. However, every time I built comparable trucks on-line the Ford was $10,000 more. I shopped for years prior to making a purchase and I was going to purchase a Ford Tremor. Then GM came out with the ZR2 and AT4X and Fords suspension does not compare and is $10,000 more. The Fords front suspension is technically tougher than the GMs and it rides like it. Yes the Ford has more HP and Torque but is it needed? NO. To my knowledge Ford has still not provided a decent interest rate on their HD trucks. Fords have CP4 injector pumps and the problems that come with them and death wobble. The death wobble can be resolved but for $10,000 more? I purchased a ZR2. I'm not ageist the Fords just pointing out the facts.

 

It’s not all about how much power you make but how you put the power to the ground.
Ford has been packing a huge punch for sometime but time after time it’s been showed that the duramax although down on power makes more usable power and therefor tows heavy lows better and quicker up mountain terrains than the ford.
Also keep in mind it’s not about how fast you can go but also how you slow down your load.
Ford has also been #1 on the worst exhaust brake for sometime now.
Dodge is the slowest up the hill but also the slowest coming down. Their exhaust brake is unparalleled.
GM and ford both are very quick and the difference in power/torque is extremely negligible and won’t be noticed by your average user but will be noticed is GMs exhaust brake is significantly stronger than Fords.

 

It’s not all about how much power you make but how you put the power to the ground.
Ford has been packing a huge punch for sometime but time after time it’s been showed that the duramax although down on power makes more usable power and therefor tows heavy lows better and quicker up mountain terrains than the ford.
Also keep in mind it’s not about how fast you can go but also how you slow down your load.
Ford has also been #1 on the worst exhaust brake for sometime now.
Dodge is the slowest up the hill but also the slowest coming down. Their exhaust brake is unparalleled.
GM and ford both are very quick and the difference in power/torque is extremely negligible and won’t be noticed by your average user but will be noticed is GMs exhaust brake is significantly stronger than Fords.

With the 10 speeds, the exhaust braking on the Duramax/PS are about a wash.
The 6 speed L5P exhaust brake seems a lot stronger and relys less on downshifting.

I don't know if you've driven a new 6.7 HO or not, but the one I drove had 37's and made my tuned '17 L5P feel like a sloth towing the same trailer.

I am not a cp4 fan but the power and gearing combination is nuts.

 

Horsepower/Torque numbers are practically nonsensical and dimensionless at this point. It's a numbers game cooked up by advertising teams, same as the flashy "40,000 lbs towing capacity" B.S.

What surprises me is that none of the big-three have the cojones to publish metrics on how many warranty repairs these massive-power superuber torque machines require, or things like total time to repair (TTx) metrics from their dealer service teams. Or how many recalls they've had. My 2018 Ram 2500 cummins had three recalls in the time I owned it. One involved the dealer service tech welding the drag links together. My 2021 Ford F350 6.7 had two recalls in the time I owned it. One involved the dealer service tech welding the spring perches on the rear axle (Ford tack welded the spring hangers and the axle tubes were folding in on themselves) Yes, the trend here is that the factory can't manage to get everything welded together correctly.

Every GM vehicle I've owned has had software recalls, which were done while the truck was in for an oil change. I haven't had one hack weld job at a dealership on any GM product.

What good does 1200 lbs of torque do for you when it's stuck in a dealer service bay for two months waiting on parts (while the dealer, if you're lucky, sticks you in a Toyota Camry rental)

I mean, come on Ford - just how many CP4 pumps have actually failed? What's the average time to repair warranty issues? As the tootsie pop owl said, "The World May Never Know..."

 

A good friend of mine owns a construction company and runs nothing but Ford HD pickups. They might do ok for a while but once they get a few miles on them, they can't keep them out of the shop. They actually had to add trucks to the fleet to allow 1 or 2 to be down for prolonged periods of time. And I'm talking all late model 6.7 PS trucks. Some of their failures in the past 2-3 years have included fires, turbo after turbo replacement, and even a complete engine failure although I'm not clear on just what failed, I just know the crate engine took forever to get.

Count me out on Ford HDs.

 

A good friend of mine owns a construction company and runs nothing but Ford HD pickups. They might do ok for a while but once they get a few miles on them, they can't keep them out of the shop. They actually had to add trucks to the fleet to allow 1 or 2 to be down for prolonged periods of time. And I'm talking all late model 6.7 PS trucks. Some of their failures in the past 2-3 years have included fires, turbo after turbo replacement, and even a complete engine failure although I'm not clear on just what failed, I just know the crate engine took forever to get.

Count me out on Ford HDs.

Not to mention the imploding CP4 pump and they do still implode. I told my neighbor he'd better put on the S & S disaster kit. You'd be surprised how many people don't know about the CP4.
Also the exploding upper fuel filter. Made of plastic like material that can crack. All though they did recently change the design to help prevent that. I suspect the NHTSA will make them do a recall to replace the filter.

 

When the first step in a Ford service manual, for anything beyond a simple job is, Remove Cab from Frame ...... I'm out too.

 

Each brand has their own set of headaches.

But at this stage I don't need a solid front axel truck. I prefer the smoother riding IFS, 2500.

My last truck was a Ram 3500. I miss the exhaust brake and the seats. But not much else.

 

ford is cheap to buy in relation to other brands so they are popular in a business that is borrowing money. so once the warranty runs out they sell them and buy more staying in perpetual debt.

if they didnt the repair bills would be huge.

and its not a ford trans at all. ford had nothing at to do with the 10spd in the l5p

 

ford is cheap to buy in relation to other brands so they are popular in a business that is borrowing money. so once the warranty runs out they sell them and buy more staying in perpetual debt.

Uh.... Explain how debt on a Ford is different then debt on a Chevy?

The Ford's are typically more expensive then any other brand since about 2017.

 

I'm with op and I think the Ford has a great looking truck now, our GM trucks are not that bad but I still cannot get past the mirrors on the doors look for me. As others have said having the most power on paper vs actually having it in a usable portion in the powerband is two different things.

Cp4 pump can be an issue but for as much as it's talked about I never run into an actually owner that has had it happen to them.

They all seem to have there issues now, I have ventured looking into other hd trucks recently as I'm worried about the 10l1000 trans issues but it seems like I'll be trading a what if issue for another if I switch. Plus there's guys on here with high mileage and no trans issues so I dunno it's a crapshoot it seems. Ram is having lifter issues right now on the Cummins and you have to get the ho to get the decent transmission. The 6.4 gasser ram is the hd truck with the best transmission in the segment right now. If they put the zf behind the Cummins like is rumored and they fix the lifter issues that might be a decent truck.

 

Ford is "Found On Road Dead" for a reason. I would never in my life own a Ford product.

 

Are they really that bad? I have buddies I camp with that have f250's that have been pretty solid trucks for them, one a 6.2 gas and one a 6.7 diesel. I'm on my second gm hd truck and both had transmission issues, my 16' complete failure at 55k and my 23' had the front cover seal leak under 10k. Out of our camping group the truck with the no issues so far has been a 23' ram power wagon 6.4l gasser. The trucks with the least amount of recalls have been the work truck variants, with is to be expected because of the far less tech and electronic features.

 

Every manufacturer has dumb stuff. I am sure there is a GM or GMC joke too.

My girlfriend's dad owns a diesel mechanic shop (does regular cars too but mostly diesel) and his biggest money maker is Ford. They just keep coming in with stupid ass problems. I've helped him on a few and they are nightmares. Needing to pull the cab for everything is one.
I had a 2023 F250 that came in with a "Wouldn't turn off condition". Take the key out and it still runs, unplug the ECM and it still runs. I don't remember exactly how we would turn it off but yeah, nightmare. THAT is 1 in a million though, at least I hope as I haven't seen one like that since.

 

I have always been a GM owner and in fact I still own an H2 and my wife XT5, I will own them until their just worn out. I have owned at least 1/2 dozen Chevy trucks, my last 2 HD's were a 2013 LML and 2019 L5P and they were both reasonable when it came to dependibility, and the exception of emission (mostly things that had to do with DEF, tanks and whatnot). I used them to tow both a large travel trailers and 5th wheel all over the US. I sold off my 2019 when the last 5th wheel was sold. It was powerful, ran great and the drive train was super, I would have put that up against any Ford or Dodge of the time. I just didn't need it anymore and now my plans are changing again where I need another Diesel.

Why don't I want a new 2500? I have 2 very close friends that owned a 2020 2500 and the other a 2021 3500. Both have had major multiple issues with the 10 speeds and both traded or sold them off, one went the Ford way, now, he says he will never go back to GM, the other sold of his 2020 and bought a used 2019 2500, funny he really wanted to buy mine.

I kinda think the new the front clips from 2020 on up on the Chevy are just fugly, my 19 Z71 2500 was fricken georgous, it had a look I would buy again in a minute. The look plus the Allison 6 speed was such a real bell ringer! About the only thing someone could complain about was the dated interior.

Mechanics are so important, Knowing what I know real world I really don't want one of those "Branded" Allisons. And if I am going to be stuck with the 10 speed I might as go with a better looking truck tht has more HP and Torque, plus it seems Ford got the better of the 2 trans. when it comes to the 10 speed, to me neither are great or superior to the Allison 6 speed.

As far as the Ford Diesel is concerned even Banks is impressed with the power and build of the new Ford Diesel and he too is a major GM fan. I really hope the 26MY will (hopefully) get a face lift, perhaps use the engineer that did the face lift on the Colorado. And GM will need something to go up against the new Superduty.

Plus some of the growing pains will be resolved with the trans or maybe they will dump it and use the new real Allison 10L1000 transmissions. But if I was nothing changes I will probably get the Superduty thank goodness I still have some time, and will see how well things shake out with the new Superduty, I really hope GM wakes up and comes out with a real bar-raiser.

Since this is a GM forum we all take pot shots at Ford trucks, but there must be a reason why they are the #1 selling truck brand for 47 years running and right not they exceed GM in almost every power and towing rating. Say what you want, you can never have too much torque when towing too. Still haven't jumped ship yet and Being very Objective, We shall see!

 

I have always been a GM owner and in fact I still own an H2 and my wife XT5, I will own them until their just worn out. I have owned at least 1/2 dozen Chevy trucks, my last 2 HD's were a 2013 LML and 2019 L5P and they were both reasonable when it came to dependibility, and the exception of emission (mostly things that had to do with DEF, tanks and whatnot). I used them to tow both a large travel trailers and 5th wheel all over the US. I sold off my 2019 when the last 5th wheel was sold. It was powerful, ran great and the drive train was super, I would have put that up against any Ford or Dodge of the time. I just didn't need it anymore and now my plans are changing again where I need another Diesel.

Why don't I want a new 2500? I have 2 very close friends that owned a 2020 2500 and the other a 2021 3500. Both have had major multiple issues with the 10 speeds and both traded or sold them off, one went the Ford way, now, he says he will never go back to GM, the other sold of his 2020 and bought a used 2019 2500, funny he really wanted to buy mine.

I kinda think the new the front clips from 2020 on up on the Chevy are just fugly, my 19 Z71 2500 was fricken georgous, it had a look I would buy again in a minute. The look plus the Allison 6 speed was such a real bell ringer! About the only thing someone could complain about was the dated interior.

Mechanics are so important, Knowing what I know real world I really don't want one of those "Branded" Allisons. And if I am going to be stuck with the 10 speed I might as go with a better looking truck tht has more HP and Torque, plus it seems Ford got the better of the 2 trans. when it comes to the 10 speed, to me neither are great or superior to the Allison 6 speed.

As far as the Ford Diesel is concerned even Banks is impressed with the power and build of the new Ford Diesel and he too is a major GM fan. I really hope the 26MY will (hopefully) get a face lift, perhaps use the engineer that did the face lift on the Colorado. And GM will need something to go up against the new Superduty.

Plus some of the growing pains will be resolved with the trans or maybe they will dump it and use the new real Allison 10L1000 transmissions. But if I was nothing changes I will probably get the Superduty thank goodness I still have some time, and will see how well things shake out with the new Superduty, I really hope GM wakes up and comes out with a real bar-raiser.

Since this is a GM forum we all take pot shots at Ford trucks, but there must be a reason why they are the #1 selling truck brand for 47 years running and right not they exceed GM in almost every power and towing rating. Say what you want, you can never have too much torque when towing too. Still haven't jumped ship yet and Being very Objective, We shall see!

The ford 10 speed transmissions have had significantly more failures than the GM so be careful in that regard.
The GM 10 speed transmission is actually quite robust despite what you may think.

As for “#1 best selling truck” that’s also false.
Ford classifies all their trucks together. 1500, 2500, 3500, 4500, 5500 and that’s how they get their huge number.
GM defines their trucks as their 1500LD, 2500-3500HD then medium duty 4500-6500 trucks.
Also they’re split between two brands, GMC and Chevy.
GM has their own “fleet” lineup categorized as well.
You add ALL the GM trucks, line-ups and models together you’ll see they drastically outsell ford in trucks.

 

Fwiw, usually, Ford outsells Chev, but Ford doesn't outsell GM (Chev+GMC).

 

For sure GM out sells ford.

I think the 2024 HD Chevy is the best looking truck on the market. Ford always looks "ordinary" to me, not a trend setter but it wont turn anyone off either. They just try to stay neutral. My boss had a 6.7 power stroke and it put a cylinder out right after the warranty was up. Ford would not help either.

Easy to go back and forth in the never ending debate or evaluation on which truck is best. But at the end of the day, all that matters is if the owner is happy. Make a good evaluation and buy the one you like best. Then take care of your new investment.

 

I have used both and you can not tell a power difference at all. I feel like the GMC pulled more effortlessly..the fuel efficiency was better on the GMC as well. Ford is a very nice truck but GMC has all the better options. What matters is what happens after the 100k warranty is out..

 

What matters is what happens after the 100k warranty is out..

Yup, that right there

 

I can't begin to explain how shitty it is to work on 10 year old Fords vs Chevys. Then again I am seeing really fucked up stuff from the oil field, framers and roofers.

 

I can agree with this, although I have only worked on my buddies older f150's they were always much more of a hassle compared to my Gm trucks. All the trucks right now seem to have an Achilles heel that hurting reliability, Gm hd trucks is the transmissions, Ford hd it seems to be the cp4 and the gasser has cam issues and they both have a major ac compressor issue right now as well, ram hd trucks Cummins lifter issues and the 68trans isn't that great.

I think right now it boils down to just picking the truck that's most comfortable to you and that you have a good dealer for during warranty. I almost left GM after the trans failure on my 16' hd but it just felt weird after only having Gm trucks so far, the familiarity is what kept me aboard. But if this 10spd ends up being an issue I might jump ship as that would be two GM HD trucks with transmission problems now.

 

It's really interesting how Ford plays the numbers game with the media. When Ford says they have the #1 selling truck for the last 47 years I guess you need to really question the statement and ask exactly what they are counting and against what other auto manufacture. Its like listening to network television news, you cant trust that either, haha.

Many have brought up great point and another reason the choice will be difficult. I do have to say though for me the trans is a real issue. I do have a cousin that is a tech at a GM dealer in Florida, he says he does at least 4 GM transmission repairs a week, 2 usually being the new 10 speeds. I so wish GM would have ponied up for the new 10 speed genuine Allison in the 20's and newer trucks.

Both of my 6 speeds were so good, I put over 100k on my 13 and over 60k on the 19 nether ever gave me the slightest problem and they really towed great! As some have said apparently its not all rosy with the Ford 10 speed either, after doing a number of internet searches they seem to be having problems as well. Definitely, MUCH more homework will be need on my part.

Guess it all comes down to cost cutting and tech advancements. Oh well, don't want to get off of that again. best regards all and great holidays to you as well.

 

The GM 10 speed is probably better than the Ford 10 speed. I am not sure where you are getting the info that the Ford transmissions are better.

 

I don't know where you're getting the info that the GM one is better when people have torn them down and compared them and the GM one is worse in almost every way.

TorqShift Vs. Allison: Which Heavy-Duty 10-Speed Is Superior?

Which of these two modern heavyweights is the better transmission?

www.drivingline.com

The Ford oil pump gear is 2x the size of the Allison's, the Ford has more clutch material and surface area on the clutches, Ford anodizes internals and GM doesn't, e-clutches are aluminum in the GMs and steel in the Fords, and the Ford has a bigger filter with 3x the service life.

I own a 24 L5P. The transmission is the weak link of the truck and it gimps the engine because it's a cheaply made fake Allison.

 

I was under the impression that the ford 10spd didn't have as many issues as well. I know the light duty 10spd is plagued with issues but the 10r140 I didn't think was that bad. Early on 20-22 I think there were cdf drum issues but ford revised that part. I know on the tuned trucks though the trans starts to have issues vs. stock power trucks. I could be wrong though, I will have to start digging on this a little more. The guys I know with the 10spd Fords 2 are higher milage and no issues (one is tuned) the 3rd one is still under 50k but know issues, the two of us that have the 10l1000 both had issues early on.

 

Four 10L1000s in my neighborhood. All over 50k miles, one over 100k. No issues. My uncle has over 100k and no issues. I think Piper is over 100k on his '22 now and no issues . hotshotmatt has over 300k and don't remember reading about an issue. I only had my '22 for a year but no issues in 20k. Heard of many more issues with 1500's 10L80.

 

This is encouraging and I hope what many can expect. For me I am just gun shy of the 10l1000 issues you hear about because of my last experience with my 6l90 in my 16'. I would hear about the issues and shrug it off that it was just isolated, until it happened to me 3hrs from home pulling my trailer. I wish GM would just come out and let us know what the issue with the valvebody is...batch of bad ones, poor machining, driving style maybe city vs highway. There is a recall for the 25' trucks I think it is for debris inside, I saw that and was wondering if that was the issue all along and caused the valvebody to have excessive wear leading to the issues we are seeing with them. Possibility but we will never know for sure probably what the real cause for the VB failure is.

 

Had 2 GM HD 10-speed trucks with no transmission issues over 65k miles. Now with a Ford SD 10-speed. Good so far and smooth shifting as well.

 

Do you prefer one over the other now that you have experience with both? What made you switch to the Ford this go around?

 

All I can buy in the local auctions for fleet is Ford garbage lmao

 

I gotta laugh at all of you who think the 6.7's self implode and are a bad platform.

My dad put 145k on a 2020 PSD it before it went to a new rep. Truck never came unhooked from a trailer, grossing 23k and the only issue was a harmonic balancer that came loose. His new one is a '23 HO that just rolled 50k, hasn't had a single issue. I've had (2) 2011's, and my brother has had a '12, a '13 and (2) '14's.

Out of 8 6.7s, my '11 had a leak in the upper oil pan at 190k thanks to the PO never servicing the CCV.

In 20K my L5P has had a bad def pump, a coolant sensor and a front wheel bearing go bad. Guess I should go over to the Cummins and Powerstroke forum and tell them what a POS GM's are?

 

@JayLLY Not sure if you were directing that comment at me but I am certainly not saying 6.7 is a bad platform. Easily the best diesel Ford has made in 20 years lol

 

Powerstrokes are made in Mexico.

The Ford boys never want to bring that up. lol

 

Powerstrokes are made in Mexico.

The Ford boys never want to bring that up. lol

My 3.0 was made in Mexico? What’s the difference