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I don’t think the price is that great. I just sold a pristine 15 with 32000 miles for 53. Maybe I sold it too cheap. I wouldn’t be scared to drive an lml anywhere for what that’s worth.


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2 letters, 1 number.

CP4.

Add the more problematic DPF and DEF systems... and.. oh hell here ya go.

At the end of the day you have to weigh the good with the "bad". Yes the CP4 injection pump is an issue but there's a solution to that issue. If you're that worried about the CP4 you can swap it out and do a CP3 conversion.

If you're that worried about emissions equipment delete the truck.

It all depends on what you're looking for. One thing we can all bet on for sure is emissions equipment isn't going anywhere ever again and it's only going to become more and more intertwined into modern-day diesel engines and trucks.

Later model LML Duramaxes are perfectly fine. My thing is if someone is that torn about the CP4 or the emissions perhaps they should just get a gas truck to simplify things.

In any event I'm not here to really comment on the price more than to say an LML Duramax is a plenty fine platform to purchase. If you really want to play it safe get a later model LML.

The earlier model years are the ones that had some emissions equipment issues although if memory serves me correct we're all fixed under warranty.
 

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I inherited my dad's truck (2013 powerstroke) with the CP4 injection pump. He put 53k miles on it and it never blew up on him. But every single time I drive it, it's almost the only thing I can think about, wondering "Is today the day this thing looses it's lunch?" I also had a 2015 LML that I thought the same thing about the whole time I was behind the wheel. I put 30k miles on it and it never died on my watch... but, to me, it isn't worth the brain damage of always stressing about it. If I were to end up with another LML, I would basically have to change the pump out, just to give my mind a rest.

I do believe some of this effect is from reading all the horror stories about the issue online, there are far more CP4 powered trucks on the road that haven't blown up, and won't blow up. If they died in the middle of the road often enough, NHTSA would force recalls... But it freaks me out enough to know I don't want one again, not without a remediation plan (like a CP3 swap) Unfortunately the powerstroke won't accept a CP3 pump, so the best you can do is put a 'disaster' kit on it that reroutes some of the fuel from the pump crankcase to hopefully prevent the metal from going down the rails into the injectors.
 

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My View (it is just a view, and does not imply that others are incorrect)

A 2015 should be going for closer to ~ $40k, you can get a 2016 for very low $50's and a 2017 for mid $50's. Because the 2017 is an Engine Change to the L5P it is driving down the price of the previous generation. I would also say that for some reason, I feel like the 2017 model made a change to the interior, and the seats are much LESS comfortable than the 2017 - but nothing compares to the barco lounges GM was using like in my 2006!!

Most of the "issues" listed in the article have to do with the IFS, and these are wear parts on all years of Duramax, so its going to be an issue regardless of which year you buy. In my view worth the cost of eventual Steering parts replacement since the ride is waaaaay better than the solid axel of Ford or Dodge.

The CP3 does appear to be a better built pump, however it has the same issue of possible failure. I suspect, if you are keeping it stock, not oversizing injectors, not installing a hot tune, not installing a bigger turbo, and putting Fuel Additive in the Tank, you will not see an issue. I don't love that GM dug in their heels so much on not putting in lift pumps until they finally gave in for the 2020 model year, but if a person wanted to feel more confident, they could install a Kennedy lift pump [I just prefer the Centrifugal Pump over the Fass/Air Dog PD Pumps, especially on a stock truck]. I would suspect [have absolutely no actual data to support this] that 95% of typical LML drivers do not have a CP4 pump issue, and ~ 60% of modifed LML owners see issues with the CP4.
 

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I’ve said this before on here, but I feel like it’s worth repeating again ;) The company I work for had a fleet of LML powered trucks, around 70-80 vehicles. They’re oilfield work trucks, so they don’t have the easiest life and when they started cycling them out of the fleet every one of them were in the 275-300K range. The rest of the truck was worn out but the engines still ran great. So out of several million combined miles we had ONE cp4 failure which was caused by a new hire trying to run a high mileage cp4 on gasoline. I know several other people with LML personal trucks with high miles and the ones I’ve asked if they’re worried about the cp4 usually answer with “what’s that?”. It does happen no doubt but I think it’s pretty rare and the internet tends to have a magnifying glass affect on things.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I found a 17 high country 2500 with 84k miles for 51k. Trying to get them down to 48k 49k plus my trade. If not keep looking. Only reason looking to upgrade is i upgraded to 4th wheel 14k. Gasser did great on flats but struggled a little on the hills.
 

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The L5P is a better platform, so if that's an option you should take it. However, the constant bashing of the LML's over the possibility of the CP4 going out is getting old. As someone rightly pointed out a couple times in this thread already, there are WAY more functioning CP4 trucks than ones that have grenaded themselves. We live in a bubble on our forums. People sign up when they have a problem. They come here looking for advice on the most extreme and unique situations. No one is stopping in here saying "Hey guys, my LML is stock and works as intended."

Is there a possibility your CP4 will grenade and send you looking for a crate motor? Yeah, there is. Your truck could also experience a runaway at any time, too. You could throw a rod bearing. You could have a wiring short melt down and light the engine bay on fire. You could hit a deer. A deer could hit you. You could hit an icy patch on the road and become part of the roadside scenery. A widowmaker could fall on your truck while it's parked in the driveway. Someone could steal your truck. Jesus Christ could come back this afternoon and your truck problems won't matter anymore.
 

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The L5P is a better platform, so if that's an option you should take it. However, the constant bashing of the LML's over the possibility of the CP4 going out is getting old. As someone rightly pointed out a couple times in this thread already, there are WAY more functioning CP4 trucks than ones that have grenaded themselves. We live in a bubble on our forums. People sign up when they have a problem. They come here looking for advice on the most extreme and unique situations. No one is stopping in here saying "Hey guys, my LML is stock and works as intended."

Is there a possibility your CP4 will grenade and send you looking for a crate motor? Yeah, there is. Your truck could also experience a runaway at any time, too. You could throw a rod bearing. You could have a wiring short melt down and light the engine bay on fire. You could hit a deer. A deer could hit you. You could hit an icy patch on the road and become part of the roadside scenery. A widowmaker could fall on your truck while it's parked in the driveway. Someone could steal your truck. Jesus Christ could come back this afternoon and your truck problems won't matter anymore.
"Become part of the roadside scenery" - Love it!!
 

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My View (it is just a view, and does not imply that others are incorrect)

A 2015 should be going for closer to ~ $40k, you can get a 2016 for very low $50's and a 2017 for mid $50's. Because the 2017 is an Engine Change to the L5P it is driving down the price of the previous generation. I would also say that for some reason, I feel like the 2017 model made a change to the interior, and the seats are much LESS comfortable than the 2017 - but nothing compares to the barco lounges GM was using like in my 2006!!

Most of the "issues" listed in the article have to do with the IFS, and these are wear parts on all years of Duramax, so its going to be an issue regardless of which year you buy. In my view worth the cost of eventual Steering parts replacement since the ride is waaaaay better than the solid axel of Ford or Dodge.

The CP3 does appear to be a better built pump, however it has the same issue of possible failure. I suspect, if you are keeping it stock, not oversizing injectors, not installing a hot tune, not installing a bigger turbo, and putting Fuel Additive in the Tank, you will not see an issue. I don't love that GM dug in their heels so much on not putting in lift pumps until they finally gave in for the 2020 model year, but if a person wanted to feel more confident, they could install a Kennedy lift pump [I just prefer the Centrifugal Pump over the Fass/Air Dog PD Pumps, especially on a stock truck]. I would suspect [have absolutely no actual data to support this] that 95% of typical LML drivers do not have a CP4 pump issue, and ~ 60% of modifed LML owners see issues with the CP4.
All L5Ps (2017+) have an in-tank lift pump and a Denso HP4 injection pump.
 

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Also keep in mind that half of the people that are so scared of the CP4 are wearing a mask everyday thinking it’ll keep them from getting COVID. Buy a lml, use good fuel, an occasional additive and there’s a 95% chance you’ll be fine.


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Discussion Starter #17
So my search will continue. They offered me 34k for my truck 15 high country gas with 59k miles and were not budging passed 51.5k for a 17 hc duramax with 84k miles. I have till march or i just might re gear my gasser to 4:56.

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Somethings not adding up. They want $51k for a 2017 plus your trade at $34k (they would plan to make at least $3k on this). In the end that gives them a value if $54k for the 2017. Agree with you, it’s just too steep.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I owe 25k on my truck. I figured i would get near 40k for trade. They want 51.5k for a 17 with 84k miles which i think is high. I think 48k is fair for that truck. Maybe i am too optimistic

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Right now you are. I think under normal circumstances you would be right, at 48k but all the dealers know how valuable the 2017+ models are right now and most won't budge. I think we'll see prices adjust a bit more reasonable as time goes on. I paid a pretty penny for my 2018 with only 13,000 miles on it. Almost as much as it was brand new. But I was willing to pay it because of the low millage and it was something I had the history on and knew that the original owner took good care of it in the little time he had it. This will be a truck I keep for 15+ years. Wish I could have done that on my former LMM that I sold 2 months ago but I got it with 180,000 miles on it and lots of hidden things on it by the previous owner (accidents and shoddy body repair work, engine and transmission were good, but it was rusting out and i have no patience for rust)
 
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