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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I read that the GVWR includes a 150 lb driver and a full tank of fuel. If the payload capacity, as stated on the door, is say 2,600 lbs., does that mean the weight of the driver @150 and a full tank of fuel, is already accounted for and the full 2,600 lbs is available for payload?
To add to my confusion, they say the weight of any "passengers" and other items has to be deducted from the 2,600 to determine remaining payload capacity. Does passengers include the driver?
 

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GVWR is the gross weight limit; that's any and everything loaded on the 4 wheels. Weigh your truck (front and rear axle weights), you're looking for the 'wet' weight. That's the truck sitting empty (no occupants) and with all the necessary operating fluids full (including fuel).

Subtract that ^^ figure from the stated GVWR on the Driver's door. That will be your total cargo/payload capacity for occupants and pin weight (if towing), with an emphasis placed on actual axle weights.
 

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And bear in mind that the 2600lbs is just a guess. While that might take into account all fluids and a 150lb driver, it doesn't include the options on the truck. So if you ordered AC, sunroof, nerf bars, bedliner, toneau cover, ect, you could easily have a couple hundred pounds less CC than you expect. There's only one way to get your real cc, and that's to weigh the truck. The true cc will be the difference between the GVWR and what the scale says.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 · (Edited)
That's what I thought and that makes sense. The reason for my question is that along with the GVWR listed on the door, is another tag with "tire and loading information" showing a tire pressure and cargo capacity that is roughly 150 lbs more than the GVWR minus the trucks weight. Nothing has been added to the truck except a bedliner. I used 2,600 as an rounded illustration (and being to lazy to look at the tag) Its really 2321 (vs 9200 gvwr-7020 actual empty weight including 1/4 tank of fuel.) I suppose the fuel and the junk in the pockets and glove box would account for some of the difference. Based upon these number, it appears my old 1500 z-71 has a cargo capacity nearly that of a my 2500hd. I had dreams of a middle of the road size fifth wheel camper when I bought the thing.
 

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That's what I thought and that makes sense. The reason for my question is that along with the GVWR listed on the door, is another tag with "tire and loading information" showing a tire pressure and cargo capacity that is roughly 150 lbs more than the GVWR minus the trucks weight. Nothing has been added to the truck except a bedliner. I used 2,600 as an rounded illustration (and being to lazy to look at the tag) Its really 2321 (vs 9200 gvwr-7020 actual empty weight including 1/4 tank of fuel.) I suppose the fuel and the junk in the pockets and glove box would account for some of the difference. Based upon these number, it appears my old 1500 z-71 has a cargo capacity nearly that of a my 2500hd. I had dreams of a middle of the road size fifth wheel camper when I bought the thing.
I just went through the same 5'r calculation - Time to trade up to a 3500. You can do it with a 2500, if you stay in the 20-24 foot range of 5th wheel campers.

If you want to step up to the 30+ foot campers, it's 3500 territory.
 

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Have you weighed your truck to determine real weight?
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
I have weighed it and its comes in at exactly 7020 with a bedliner and small toolbox with about 10 lbs, if that, of tools.

NachO, a former automotive engineer with GM told me I wouldn't gain a hell of a lot by trading for a 3500 unless I went to a dually. He said that other than the rear springs/tires, the drive train and frame is essentially the same and for the most part interchangeable. (bear in mind we were talking about an 2007)
 

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It's all about weight rating. Springs and additional tires for weight distribution are a big part of the equation.
 

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I have weighed it and its comes in at exactly 7020 with a bedliner and small toolbox with about 10 lbs, if that, of tools.

NachO, a former automotive engineer with GM told me I wouldn't gain a hell of a lot by trading for a 3500 unless I went to a dually. He said that other than the rear springs/tires, the drive train and frame is essentially the same and for the most part interchangeable. (bear in mind we were talking about an 2007)
I totally agree a 2500 will do it - it's about insurance and if overload a 2500 and god forbid have an accident - likely I'll be stuck with a claim I need to pay myself as it would be denied for operation of the truck outside it's designed weight limits.

the 3500 offers (on paper) the margin of safety required to be able to tow and have insurance provide backing in case an accident.

It's not about the tires, or mechanical systems, springs or any of that - it's about what the man will cover if some shit happens.

The price difference is under 1000.00 too.
 

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I have weighed it and its comes in at exactly 7020 with a bedliner and small toolbox with about 10 lbs, if that, of tools.

NachO, a former automotive engineer with GM told me I wouldn't gain a hell of a lot by trading for a 3500 unless I went to a dually. He said that other than the rear springs/tires, the drive train and frame is essentially the same and for the most part interchangeable. (bear in mind we were talking about an 2007)
In 07 there was an 800lb difference. That's not a hell of a lot, but definitely worth the couple of hundred $ extra. Now the difference is 1500lbs. Going from an 07 2500 to a 2015 3500SRW brings your GVWR from 9200 to 11500. I was a little disappointed with my payload as well.

I'm at 7585lbs with me, wife, dog, and 2.5 gallons of gas. And that's after losing some weight by deleting the DPF and cat. I do have a slip tank in the back as well. But by the time I fill the main tank, my real world payload is only 1500lbs. If I fill both tanks, I'm at about 8300lbs.

800lbs would have made a big difference, it would mean 2300lbs for a 5th wheel instead of 1500lbs. With both tanks full, I'm barely legal with my 26' TT, which only has a hitch weight around 800lbs. (Advertised as 430lbs TW.)
 

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You will get the most payload with a regular cab, 2wd DRW 3500. By a lot.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
J.C., that's how a lot of folks get mislead by the marketing folks on both GVWR and GCWR. Their published and advertised numbers on tow weights are based on a regular cab, 2x4 with virtually no options. Mine (a 2007, 2500hd) has an "advertised" payload capacity of 3,458 lbs and an advertised tow weight of 13,000. The true numbers for payload are 9200-7000 truck weight or 2200; a 1200 lb haircut.
To make it worse, they advertise a tow capacity or 14,400 with a 5th wheel hitch. The number don't jibe because at a 1:5 king pin weight to trailer weight most 5th wheels have, ain't no way a 10,000 lb 5th wheel won't overload the payload capacity when considering passengers and personal item, let alone a 14,400 lb rig.
 

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You know the manufacturers should be forced to put the ACTUAL payload and tow ratings on each vehicle as it leaves the factory, and it should be there for both pulling and 5th wheel/GN towing. That way when someone looks at a particular truck to buy, the ACTUAL numbers would be right there on the sticker. Make it on the door sticker also. Anything less is purposely misleading the public, I think.
 

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You know the manufacturers should be forced to put the ACTUAL payload and tow ratings on each vehicle as it leaves the factory, and it should be there for both pulling and 5th wheel/GN towing. That way when someone looks at a particular truck to buy, the ACTUAL numbers would be right there on the sticker. Make it on the door sticker also. Anything less is purposely misleading the public, I think.
I agree. They should even show you the weight when you build the truck online. You want a sunroof, 30lbs. Nerf bars, 80lbs, etc.

And trailer manufacturers should do the same thing.

Ram would never sell another 1500 diesel. As soon as you have 4 friends in the cab, you can't pull a trailer or put anything in the bed.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Here's the situation I'm looking at and ya'll tell me what I need to do. The fifth wheel I'm considering will, as a best guess, put me over on the 9200 GVWR about 175-200 lbs. Maybe 250-300 at the outside but that's a little of a stretch. Most likely I'm going to come in at 1,870 hitch weight and I have 1,630 payload available after people (2), fuel, and hitch. However, I'm under on the GCWR by 3500-4000 lbs after adding 1,000 lbs of junk in the camper. Trailer loaded weighs + or - 10.5k carefully loaded. I got a 2007 gmc 2500hd duramax with airbags.
 

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I cant tell you what to do, but I pull my 35ft Open Range 5th wheel, weighing at 11400 and have no regrets or second thoughts.

Pulls it like a dream. Every now and then when the road makes it buck a little, I am reminded its back there. This is the largest trailer I will ever pull, but I am loving it. If I were ever going to haul more, I would have to go dually, but would hate it.
 

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Here's the situation I'm looking at and ya'll tell me what I need to do. The fifth wheel I'm considering will, as a best guess, put me over on the 9200 GVWR about 175-200 lbs. Maybe 250-300 at the outside but that's a little of a stretch. Most likely I'm going to come in at 1,870 hitch weight and I have 1,630 payload available after people (2), fuel, and hitch. However, I'm under on the GCWR by 3500-4000 lbs after adding 1,000 lbs of junk in the camper. Trailer loaded weighs + or - 10.5k carefully loaded. I got a 2007 gmc 2500hd duramax with airbags.
99% of people would buy the trailer and run a bit overloaded. And 99.99999999% of them never have any issues. But bear in mind that if the trailer advertises 1870lbs hitch weight, it's really well over 2000lbs, and loading the trailer will put another 300lbs on the hitch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
I had called the manufacture and the 1870 hitch weight come from them after we added 60lbs propane, 50lbs for a battery and 100lbs for leveling boards, clothes and stuff in the bedroom. Maybe I'm being a little conservative. Hitch weight without these additions comes in a approximately 1760 +(-) 5-10lbs according to factory rep. I figure how I load the thing is going to be big factor.
 

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I had called the manufacture and the 1870 hitch weight come from them after we added 60lbs propane, 50lbs for a battery and 100lbs for leveling boards, clothes and stuff in the bedroom. Maybe I'm being a little conservative. Hitch weight without these additions comes in a approximately 1760 +(-) 5-10lbs according to factory rep. I figure how I load the thing is going to be big factor.
Yes, but realistically, you're not going to move everything out of the front half of trailer every time you tow it. And in 5ers, the bulk of the storage is under the bathroom, that's where all the heavy stuff ends up. And kitchens are usually forward of the wheels as well. Dishes, cooking gear, food, beer, it all adds up. 300lbs seems to be a pretty common number additional pin weight due to loading. 1000lbs extra is not much, my 26' TT loaded is 1600lbs over advertised dry weight, with only a few gallons of water. Some of that is options not counted in the dry weight, like the AC, but most of it is my junk.

The good news is that you'll be over by very little. You might be the lightest 2500+fifth on the road.
 

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If you have a crew cab any weight that you put in the 8' box will not reach the front axle.I put 6500 lbs of dirt in my box and only added 220 lbs to the front axel.I have a crewcab
DRW WITH AN 8' box.I think if you have a short box with a crewcab you would unload weight off the front axle and add to the rear if you load your gross weight.
 
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