without knowing the actual chemical composition you can't really know

 

No, but what I do know is they are the same color, both contain glycol ethers and aryl alcohol...both are made by chevron...both come in the exact same bottle.


the "replacement" 19355198, aka "Top Engine Cleaner" is definitely not the same stuff...this seems closer.

 

Two of these will do the trick

https://www.amazon.com/BG-Diesel-In...8-1&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=bg+22932&dpPl=1&dpID=41VvTGwH5nL&ref=plSrch

 

just watched some youtube videos about that stuff. I'd bet it works well, looks like you don't even have to mix it with diesel.

 

It’s premixed with diesel. I was a BG rep for 12 years. Everything BG is done right.

 

Techron does have a diesel injector cleaner. Their gas Techron is a mimic of BG 44k without the liquid nitrogen, it’s a decent product

 

And so we come to the same discussion we always come to on topics like this. Is this fluid, filter, component, technique, etc. which looks the same or better and could be the same or better worth the risk of using in the absence of perfect knowledge?

I deal with a printer that has an Xerox label on it. It wasn't built by Xerox though. The company that built it sells the toner cartridges for less than half of what Xerox sells them for. They have the same part number, look identical except for the color of some of the plastic parts and some sources cross reference them the same. Should I use this cartridge?

My transmission was built by one company and sold by another. The two companies, Allison and GM, specify different fluids for the transmission. I know that the two fluids are not identical. Which should I use?

When faced with such decisions what is one to do? I think you need to start with some kind of cost/benefit analysis. If the cost could be a truck sitting in the midst of the smoldering heap that used to be my house with attached garage containing everything I used to own and the benefit was saving a couple of bucks then I don't think I would take the option. If the cost could be a leaky CP and rotted fuel lines and the benefit could be a couple of hundred dollars a year then I'd have to weigh the likelihood of each outcome. The trouble is, without a lot of research it is impossible to know for sure what the likelihood is. So I must guess.

The research so far on injector cleaners indicates that the two products in question have similar and possibly exactly the same ingredients. There is no evidence that they are not the same or at least compatible. Good sense suggests that components designed to work with today's fuel will have similar seals made from similar materials having similar resistance to what ever might be in the fuel.

In my mind it would not be risky at all to use the BMW product in a GM vehicle. I wouldn't suggest that I am the authority on such things though. Your conclusion is just as valid for yourself as mine is for myself.

Part of my conclusion is based on experience with other similar situations. GM weather strip adhesive is identical to 3M weather strip adhesive except for the package. Wix makes all of the oil filters sold by O'Reilly and I am sure they are the same where it counts because opening them up, they look the same.

All of the fuel sold in my area comes from 3 refineries in North Salt Lake City. It all goes through the same pipeline. It is stored in the same tanks east of Boise. I can believe that different retailers add things between the storage tanks and my tank (maybe) but the base fuels are the same.

If there is a difference between Mini motor oil and Castrol motor oil other than price I'd be very surprised since on my wife's filler cap it says "Mini likes Castrol".

I have spent many years in the automotive service industry and I have seen a lot of things repackaged for the benefit of those who want to "stay all GM" or some such. Adding another label on top of an existing one always costs money. Just buy a Bosch part in a GM box and see how much extra you pay. I often buy my Mercedes parts from Europe because they sell for so much less there that it is worth paying the shipping and waiting a couple of weeks for them to arrive. Same parts, just in a Bosch box, not a Daimler-Benz box.

For some it is worth paying more to be sure. For me it is worth taking a reasonable risk to save some money. I can fix my own stuff though so the risk is smaller for me than it would be for someone else.

There is no one right answer here. There is only an option and an opinion.

 

Attached is what passes for a MSDS sheet in Germany on the BMW cleaner

https://www.eeuroparts.com/Parts/46712/Fuel-Injection-Cleaner-Concentrate-82140428376/

Two things, It clearly states the country of manufacture is Germany. I do not believe Chevron has a chemical plant there so it does not appear to have been made by Chevron.

It does state that it Is Not a fuel tank additive. This, at least, is similar to the AC Delco cleaner.

It states it is for All BMW and Mini vehicles. Does BMW make a diesel? Im not sure on that one. If not, again it may not play well with diesel seals.

And as for seems similar, let me leave you with two thoughts,

Dex VI does not play well with the older Allison seals Meaning what seems similar is not always.

The difference between Ethanol (which most of us enjoy consuming in one form or another) and Methanol, (Which is a deadly poison) is a single carbon atom in the molecule. Methanol has one carbon atom more. They are Very similar

Meaning, similar is not always a good idea

And lastly a fellow I have come to think of and I had a couple discussions on here about the concept of using Jet A in my LMM. It had been done before and I would have saved a few dollars.

Someone on here (who I think has a lot of wisdom, knowledge and experience) convinced me it was not a good idea for longevity of my engine.

I wonder if he recalls those discussions.............

 

Bio cleans the CP, tank and lines very well. I don't know how much it does for the injectors but I suspect that it does help. I don't know anything about the new AC Delco cleaner. GM likes to say that their engines don't need additives but we all know that it helps to use some additives at some times. This is an area where you just have to decide what you are comfortable with and do it. There seems to be a different opinion from each person you ask.

 

It's interesting that you google search x66p and are shown bmw & acdelco stuff repeatedly.
I hadn't realized that x66p labeled stuff had sky rocketed in price as if the demand is so great that a cheaper alternative won't work. Think I have a container of the stuff kicking around somewhere too.

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I have two bottles of x66p sitting on my shelf in the garage... maybe I should hold onto them a little longer


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I was doing research on this BMW cleaner, comes in same bottle as the old cleaner used by GM, also is the same color. Bmw told me that it was made by Chevron. And they use the Chevron with tecron when they are out.
But what has got me is they are putting it in the fuel tank.
Now because of the intence cleaning being done, is that why they said not to use in fuel tank?
I am contacting chevron to ask them what the deal is. I talked to BMW and they were very nice and helpful.
I did not read the whole thread, so sorry if I am way behind

 

I went to BMW, bottle says do not put in fuel, must be introduced into fuel system.
I am going to use it today in the cleaning prosses, I will post before and after balance rates if anyone carse

 

Im prob 2/3 of the way through the fuel and cleaner mix. If I stop when the can is empty then I would guess my filer and lines would hold aprox 1/3 of the mix at min, so I am going to take it up the freeway with the remaining cleaner. I guess whats the worse that can happen? I would have to put injectors in it. Which is what I woyld do anyway. My symptoms were it would haze sometimes at idle.
My balance rates were aprox

Cyl#1 good
Cyl#2 good
Cyl#3 aprox 4.5 * 5.
Cyl#4 aprox 3 * 3.5
Cyl#5 aprox 3
Cyl#6 good
Cyl#7 aprox -3 * -3.5
Cyl#8 good

Cyl 3 injector pulse with was high
With the others being around 0.25 ms
Number 3 around 0.4 ms. With it being such a high positive balance rate I am guessing its adding fuel from being plugged and not letting the expeced amount through.
The injectors are 3 year old Industrial injection 30% over injectors. I plan on making the switch to a 2 micron filter.
I am pretty bummed about the injectors looking bad this early.
I hope this works, but I have never seen any "can solution" work 100%

 

Lots of people come to me wishing there was a bottle of something that could make their engine like new. It's worth a try but it nearly always takes parts to make things right again.

 

Agreed

It brought all my balance rates down, but it was running in the solution when I checked them. I will continue to check them when it goes back to just diesel.
I have a feeling that the 3 year old injectors were more plugged than damaged. I shut my truck sown when the solution was gone, so my filter is still full of it. I did not get a chance to drive it down the interstate yet with the remaining solution. So later today I will do that.
It brought my #3 injector balance rate down, but brought the rest of my injector pulse rates up to where 3 was ?
Kind of strange.
I will watch my rates on my drive later and post the results up when its back to just running on diesel.
This is for anyone like my self who is new to the diesels, and doesnt want to spend $75 on the left over ac delco.
I got ghe BMW stuff for $20 at BMW after a discount from the shop I work at. Funny thing is I told him it was for a GM and its prob the same as what was discontinued. And they did not give me any problem buying it. Like what people ran into at the Chevy dealer

 

Last time I did mine I went to the Chevy dealer and found out about the change. The Caddy dealer in Fife still had 5 bottles of the old stuff. I bought it all. Still have 4 left. Standyne fuel treatment is now available at AutoZone. It is the best of them but was hard to get before. I use it every fill up. They stay cleaner now. It was starting to haze a little last fall and the balance rates were going up. Then I hooked up my RV and headed out on a 3000 mile trip. It starts out with a mild pass (Snoqualmie) and then the hills between Elensburg and Yakima which are steeper. Then Cabbage which is a real steep one. By the time I got to Boise it was all cleared up. I don't think driving these trucks around empty is good for them. It's starting to haze a little again but that same trip will be repeated in June. After Boise come SLC Vegas and LA then home. Lots of mountains. There is the pass in NW Arizona. The pass between Vegas and LA. The Grapevine and last the Siskyous / Mt Shasta. Last time was December and it is just barely starting to haze. Now that the weather is better I will be driving the Vette more so the truck won't get much worse. But I think they just don't run hot enough or push enough fuel long enough to keep them clean running around empty. If you don't have a trailer go borrow one and run the truck hard and see if that fixes the problem. My flatbed weighs 3000 pounds and I just cut down some big trees. I may put the big logs on it and run over Tiger Mountain and back to seeing it cleans it up.

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So I just did the injector cleaning and might piss some of you off on my method. But $90 for the AC delco stuff and the fact that no one around me carries 1/2" fuel hose lead me down this path. Also, $3.70 a foot for hose is kinda pricey!
I used the BMW cleaner($24.90 delivered), which I had a company look into and informed me that it has the same make up of the AC delco stuff and also made by Chevron. I also used 2 1/2" hoses instead of one 1/2" and one 3/8". The hoses was PVC (did a lot of research here, PVC is compatible with diesel, and it was not under any pressure). The haze is gone and the rates are down and it cost me $45. So far I am happy and I am sure the guy next to my tailpipe at the next traffic light will also be happy.

I will let you all know when the haze returns, after all I do have a LB7.

 

So I just did the injector cleaning and might piss some of you off on my method.

What makes you think anyone here would be upset?

I used the BMW cleaner($24.90 delivered), which I had a company look into and informed me that it has the same make up of the AC delco stuff

Im curious, what company?

 

Bottle of Seafoam says it can be used in Diesel Injector Cleaning machines, and to use 100% seafoam...

I've used a can of seafoam with about 1/2 gallon of diesel, did seem to make the truck run a little smoother/quieter.

Anyone ever tried running on 100% seafoam from the jug? lol

 

Seafoam is recommended to put in the fuel tank and the GM cleaner is not. I think it contains some significantly stronger cleaners that GM did not want interacting with the plastic fuel tank. Therefore I dont' think Seafoam is of as much value in this application.

That is just my opinion though and it is worth what you paid for it.

 

Seafoam is mostly isopropyl, which in a diesel tank is a no-no. It has Naptha and mineral oil...

I wouldn't put Seafoam in a diesel ever, much less run it on it.

The BG 22932 can be had for about $30/bottle and you'll need 2. It's already mixed with diesel and ready to go with the best cleaners money can buy.

 

Definitely gonna try the BG products on the next injector cleaning interval.

Too late on the seafoam, already did a cleaning with it last night, I went about 50/50 diesel and seafoam. And then replaced the fuel filter.

I could tell immediately how much quieter the truck is...the injector noise and the whole engine seems quieter. Seemed to work almost as well as the BMW/x66p.

Gonna go with BG next in about 5000 miles or so.

 

I got a bottle of the GM cleaner...I in plugged the 3 connectors from the stock lift pump on my Van. There is a 15 amp fuse and a relay labled fuel pump. Is the CP3 pump mechanical? Also what is a closed fuel system?,...the two lines in the bottle recirculating? Also I had two very loose connections I fixed at the lift pump. One was the stiff line from the lift pump/filter to the large filter. The other was the 1/2" line connection to the lift pump. Getting the old seals out tricky ( I made a tool from a fork...and finding o-rings correct size was not easy...but now the connection is excellent. Could be the whole problem...P0087. Will now if not misfiring when I start the cleaning... Will start cleaning about 3 hours from now. Thank for any input. Also internet say more concentrated solution will not work better just waste...

 

The CP3 is totally mechanical in the way it pumps. The fuel pump relay is for the lift pump.

A close fuel system doesn't have any external venting that isn't controlled. Many older vehicles have straight atmospheric venting that lets any vapors produced escape. Modern engines have sealed systems to reduce pollution. The system is called EVAP which is sort of a contraction for EVAPorative emissions control. The gummament didn't want hydrocarbons just evaporating into the air all of the time. Diesel didn't have EVAP until long after gas engines because diesel doesn't evaporate as much but anything you can smell is evaporating so eventually the EPA said diesels had to have sealed systems too.

When you ask questions you sometimes assume that we know what you are talking about when we don't. I don't know what you are talking about ",...the two lines in the bottle circulating?" What two lines? What bottle? What circulation?

 

The CP3 is totally mechanical in the way it pumps. The fuel pump relay is for the lift pump.



A close fuel system doesn't have any external venting that isn't controlled. Many older vehicles have straight atmospheric venting that lets any vapors produced escape. Modern engines have sealed systems to reduce pollution. The system is called EVAP which is sort of a contraction for EVAPorative emissions control. The gummament didn't want hydrocarbons just evaporating into the air all of the time. Diesel didn't have EVAP until long after gas engines because diesel doesn't evaporate as much but anything you can smell is evaporating so eventually the EPA said diesels had to have sealed systems too.



When you ask questions you sometimes assume that we know what you are talking about when we don't. I don't know what you are talking about ",...the two lines in the bottle circulating?" What two lines? What bottle? What circulation?

I assumed the two lines he was referring to were the supply and return lines that you stuff in the bottle of cleaner mix.

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I don't know if I ever posted an update. I used the GM cleaner with high hopes, but it did nothing for the hazing. I ended up swapping out the injectors and that was the fix. A couple of them looked really really bad.

 

Yeah, the cleaner is a great product, but it can only solve a problem if it is related to dirty injectors. If there has been rust or sand particles (something hard) running through, the injector wears, and no cleaner out there will fix one that is worn.

I always start with the cleaning procedure, just to try it out, if it works, great just saved a pile of money, if it doesn't, well, your not out that much (unless you bout the $200 bottle on ebay… ouch).

At least you are up and running now!

 

An add on to my previous post...

- or an injector with a shit ton of miles... they do eventually wear out! LOL

 

Yes! That is what I was referring to. It was nice to have an explanation of what a "closed system" is...

 

Any harm in using the x66p or BMW jug cleaning method on an LMM that still has EGR/DPF? or the BG products?

Done it a few times on my LB7, but worried this will cause DPF issues. Don't have the money ready to delete.

 

I did my previous LMM before it was deleted and it had no ill effects.

 

As far as I know the DPF isn't particularly sensitive. The more likely victim of using the wrong chemical would be the CAT. Since they have been around for about 40 years now, most chemical makers are well aware the they can be in big trouble with the EPA for selling things that kill converters. I don't think it should be a problem.

 

FYI...BG 22932 is diesel fuel with detergency and lubrication in the bottle. It’s ready to go.