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:wink2: Until they require a plug into the OMBDII! :surprise:

The final death rattle for the deletes will be when the EPA starts to enforce and deploy All of the tools they have for this under the CAA. With what some of the crazies are doing in Kali now it is just a matter of time before at the Federal level they start playing hardball with equipment checks. Hate that it has come to this but we have only to look in the mirror to see who is to blame.
how would that prevent you from disconnecting every factory wire from the engine, building your own ECM, writing your own engine management software, wring your own tune, and connecting your one of a kind ECM to the engine, disconnecting all the emissions, and fabricating any required hardware to remove those parts? yea, its a lot of work, but it would not be possible to 100% guarantee the truck could not be deleted or modified if you were dedicated and had the tools / experience to do it. Building that ECM would probably be somewhere around senior project level as far as skills needed for an electrical or computer engineering student, so its not really outside the realm of possibilities for a DIY if you had the skills.

Once one person does all that work though..... its been done, and doesent necessarily need to be done again. Hell, theres probably already a solution like this out there from the gasser community. I know theres all kinds of aftermarket custom ECM's you can get and tune to do whatever you want, im sure someone makes a diesel version.
 

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how would that prevent you from disconnecting every factory wire from the engine, building your own ECM, writing your own engine management software, wring your own tune, and connecting your one of a kind ECM to the engine, disconnecting all the emissions, and fabricating any required hardware to remove those parts? yea, its a lot of work, but it would not be possible to 100% guarantee the truck could not be deleted or modified if you were dedicated and had the tools / experience to do it. Building that ECM would probably be somewhere around senior project level as far as skills needed for an electrical or computer engineering student, so its not really outside the realm of possibilities for a DIY if you had the skills.

Once one person does all that work though..... its been done, and doesent necessarily need to be done again. Hell, theres probably already a solution like this out there from the gasser community. I know theres all kinds of aftermarket custom ECM's you can get and tune to do whatever you want, im sure someone makes a diesel version.
No Inspection sticker would be a start in my state of Texas. The inspection station logs into the state wide system after plugging into your OMBDII and if you pass then you are reported as such and can get your yearly registration and inspection combo. Hey anything can be done with enough money. Just not practical plus never being able to trade it in to a dealer is another negative. Game has changed there as well.
 

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No Inspection sticker would be a start in my state of Texas. The inspection station logs into the state wide system after plugging into your OMBDII and if you pass then you are reported as such and can get your yearly registration and inspection combo. Hey anything can be done with enough money. Just not practical plus never being able to trade it in to a dealer is another negative. Game has changed there as well.
true, but the initial statement made (not by you i dont think) was that deletes were no longer a possibility as a result of this crack down, and that future trucks would be totally incapable of being deleted, which is not true. Sure, theres lots of red tape to get around. My point was that while difficult, it is not impossible. We dont IM here so i dont know what extents they go to with your testing, however i feel like it would not be that difficult to wire in a bogus OBDII that just plays along with the scan in progress.... kinda like what VW did with there diesels from the factory. If you had access to a testing machine you could monitor data, record what is sent to the truck, and what the truck sends back for a non deleted test, then replay that data through your bogus OBDII to make the scanner happy. I am not by any means trying to say that anyone should do this, or that it would be easy to do, just that it is significantly more doable than impossible.
 

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Hell anything is possible given you have enough resources to throw at it you are correct. The other wrinkle is that when you go into a dealer for anything that requires hooking up to the computer it reports to GM the status of your vehicle. Talked about this with my SA who I have known for over 20 years here at one of the largest GM dealers that exist when I was getting a flash for my 2020 DEF problem.

Depending on what the USG wants to do but from everything I have read or heard about the USG is going after the Suppliers and Enablers of the disabling of diesel emissions. Once they make a few examples with extreme fines or even jail time with repeat offenders the hardware and software supply chain will dry up just because the profit to be made is just not worth it.
 

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Hell anything is possible given you have enough resources to throw at it you are correct. The other wrinkle is that when you go into a dealer for anything that requires hooking up to the computer it reports to GM the status of your vehicle. Talked about this with my SA who I have known for over 20 years here at one of the largest GM dealers that exist when I was getting a flash for my 2020 DEF problem.

Depending on what the USG wants to do but from everything I have read or heard about the USG is going after the Suppliers and Enablers of the disabling of diesel emissions. Once they make a few examples with extreme fines or even jail time with repeat offenders the hardware and software supply chain will dry up just because the profit to be made is just not worth it.
I totally agree with that. Deleting going forward will be driven black market behind closed doors. Personally i feel like it would be better to allow the professional tuners to make clean safe tunes, instead of getting a bunch of cranked up smoke tunes from some guy in his basement but what do i know. also, diesels make up what, maybe 5-10% of the vehicles on the road? an maybe, being highly optimistic, 10% of them are deleted. so on the high end.... 1% of the vehicles on the road are deleted. i just dont see how theres not bigger issues to address....
 

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And so we are back to the original idea on this, "The L5P will never be tuned, period." The answer is still the same. There is a lot of money to be made tuning trucks. Where there is money to be made someone will be making it. We have a whole army dedicated to keeping drugs out of the country. You can see how successful they are just by visiting any ER/jail/prison in the country and see why the people are there. The gumament will not be able to stop tuning. It will just get more expensive and risky.

If need be the tuners will move off shore and tuning will be via internet files and programmable tuners.

GM has to maintain the ability to change the tuning on every vehicle they sell because they often have to re-calibrate for one reason or another. If GM can do it then someone else can too.

If it becomes necessary the tuned/replaced/flashed ecm will look, act and scan like the OEM ecm. It just won't run the engine like the OEM ecm.

All the EPA can do is to make it so expensive to tune that few people will want to do it.

However, compare the L5P to the LB7. The power and economy the L5P is capable of stock is something the LB7 could only achieve with serious mods. The real reason to tune today is because of the drastic things that happen when the emissions controls go bad. Once those get sorted there will be even less need to tune.

Soon we will be able to buy electric truck that will outperform anything we now have. Range will be a problem for a while but even that will be resolved when every rest stop on the freeway has a row of rapid charging stations. After all, how many of us can go more than 300 miles without a potty break or leg stretch?
 

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Finding the parts you want to set your truck up for "off-road" use only are getting harder and harder to find as shops and professional tuners have stopped offering said parts because the EPA is slapping the crap out of them with hefty fines. A shop in TX just got a 30k fine for doing deletes.



My question to you is why delete it? Why not leave the emissions intact and build upon that platform? PPEI and others are offering emission compliant tuning that adds the additional hp you want, makes the truck more responsive, increases fuel economy, reduces regens and def usage. What more could you ask for? Plus with PPEI's tuning, they have been tested by the EPA and in some cases are better than the OE factory tunes. PPEI recently installed a high end dyno and test equipment to further improve their tuning products and get them CARB certified.



I know that everyone thinks the DEF, DPF are the enemy and they have to be removed, gutted and left to die on the side of the road but like catalytic converters in the mid 70s to 81 we have to accept these emission devices and work with them and make them better not remove them and move on.



For what it's worth, I have a 20 Denalli that I am going to start beta testing today on street performance calibrations from PPEI. If all is good and I expect it will be, they will be available soon. Watch for new posts from myself or our staff at Synthetic Motorsports for updates on the 2020 tuning.


The main reason you DON’T want a on road tuner (emissions compliant) is the following :

- more smoke due to more fuel only kills emissions equipment faster. You can’t get more power with same or less smoke. Not possible.

- you still have reliability issues leaving emissions equipment in place and a on road tuning only adds to long term issues.




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The main reason you DON’T want a on road tuner (emissions compliant) is the following :

- more smoke due to more fuel only kills emissions equipment faster. You can’t get more power with same or less smoke. Not possible.

- you still have reliability issues leaving emissions equipment in place and a on road tuning only adds to long term issues.




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I understand what you're saying. The dpfs and their regens have come a long way. DEF on the other hand still needs some work. Tuning in the same right has improved dramatically over the last few years. Calibrations experts are got away from making smokey tunes along time ago and make their mission to keep them as clean as possible.

In the end nothing is completely safe from problems. It's a truck, it's a diesel, things break or go bad.

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I totally agree with that. Deleting going forward will be driven black market behind closed doors. Personally i feel like it would be better to allow the professional tuners to make clean safe tunes, instead of getting a bunch of cranked up smoke tunes from some guy in his basement but what do i know. also, diesels make up what, maybe 5-10% of the vehicles on the road? an maybe, being highly optimistic, 10% of them are deleted. so on the high end.... 1% of the vehicles on the road are deleted. i just dont see how theres not bigger issues to address....
Sorry I missed this and am replying on a belated basis but I have a comment on why the gummament is going after diesel tuning. It is all to do with rolling coal.

Suppose you are an average citizen and don't care much about cars in general as long as they get you to where you are going. While driving down the street you come across a guy in his diesel truck that just loves to pull up along side other cars, particularly hybrids and pure electrics, or bicycles or pedestrians and once he has them in his sights he floors it, blotting out the sky. Now as an otherwise unconcerned person what are you going to think?

Of course you will think, "There aught to be a law." Of course there is a law. There has been a law for a long time. It just hasn't been enforced.

Now suppose you are an EPA administrator. The main thing you want is job security and an upward career path. You sit at your desk all day thinking about how you can improve your situation. Looking out your window on the streets below you notice a cloud of black filling a street. Being a bureaucrat you don't know what is going on but you think that if there is something in the air, you can regulate it, even if it is CO2 from lungs or methane from cow farts. So you call up one of the technical people in the basement and ask them what it could possibly be that is "polluting" the air. They say it is people with non-stock tuning on their trucks.

Well what would any self respecting/promoting bureaucrat do? Of course he would see this as an opportunity to go in front of a camera and proclaim how needed he is because he is going to stop all of this polluting. To give some credence to his breast beating he has to have something to show so he picks a few businesses in the market of selling tuning and hammer's them. It doesn't matter who they are or what they are doing. All that matters is that they are in the business and that they are easy targets.

So some of the best, most responsible people get big fines. The average guy on the street who knows nothing about the real deal but has seen people rolling coal thinks that the gummament is actually doing something good for a change and is happy. Politicians get behind it all because why wouldn't they? So the EPA gets some new money and power. The bureaucrat gets a raise and a post higher up the ladder.

Everybody feels good, except those of us who really know the story. However, nobody cares about us because after all there are hardly any of us compared to the masses of ignorant voters.
 

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mizterwizard---as you pointed out so well above WE only have ourselves to blame. It really is that simple. As few idiots ruin it for everyone... Not to mention the TV Show!!!!!! :)
 

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The 'Diesel Podcast' series has lots and lots of info on the subject, much of it from those very well known in the tuning community.

Links to a couple of them.
A search on utube for 'diesel podcast' will find a bunch of others.



 

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What kind of power and fuel economy are folks getting with emissions compliant tuning? Also I know tuners are claiming fewer regens and less def fluid is this true?
 

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You heard a deleted truck might use a little less def fluid? Lmao
 

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Here’s the reason why 99% of people want to delete their l5ps.
The sound the unrestricted sound of a duramax at idle at cruising speed at WOT any time it’s running the SOUND is just amazing. Secondly most people like the poof of smoke that bellows out when you step on it. It’s that simple. Now I’m not talking “rolling coal” I think most of us understand that’s part of the reason we can’t delete anymore I’m just saying it feels nice when you have some ass hat riding you and you ease into that throttle and dust the guy off your ass. Another reason is most people don’t like being told what to do. [email protected] the epa at this stage in our world there is no turning back even if we all went to horse back. These little hybrids and electric cars are worse then our trucks. Has anyone seen a lithium mine??? And all the DIESEL it takes to mine it? Beating a dead horse lol. I get that you can “tune” these trucks with emissions equipped but why the hell would you lol your asking for trouble and with the price tag for a unlocked ecm ??? Wow. You look like a damn idiot driving your “tuned” l5p with stock exhaust and THOUSANDS in after market parts that will only help you in clogging your exhaust while chugging DEF. if you told me to my face you spent 2-3 grand on a ECM just so you could down load a tuner I’d slap you. Also most new posters who ask this question have no idea what happened with the epa and are just looking for advice. Did you delete the OP truck?? No ? Then give the guy some advice and stfu.
 

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