[swampfox]

Really hard to start,loud tapping noise and clouds of black smoke covering the road just getting up to 50mph,It is a 2001 LB-7 4wd, 46,000 ,replaced fuel filter,air filter and does not have any codes. Tapping is loud enough I am afraid to drive 50 miles to dealer. HELP

 

[05_LLY]

Any type of mods done to the truck? Dose it smoke white at idle?

 

[swampfox]

No or very little smoke at idle or up to app. 1500rpm. Then you start seeing black smoke.

 

[swampfox]

Black Smoke

No mods installed. No white smoke!

 

[05_LLY]

I dont know on this one, could be injectors but i dont think so. COuld be a no boost problem, are all you turbo boots still on and in good condition? heres a long shoot but is the turbo seized? Hows it on power, still good, more than normal?

 

[swampfox]

Loud Tapping

I don't think there is any difference in power, I towed a 12,000 pound fifth wheel about a 100 miles after the tapping noise started ,didnt notice any difference in power and didnt notice the smoke until I got home. The only way I can get it started is to hold the starter on for at least twice as long as normal and open the throttle a little .The tapping sounds like a flat lifter but a lot louder especially when it is cold. It also sounds like it is missing on one cylinder fo two or three min. when cold started.

 

[swampfox]

loud tapping and black smoke

Guess I will smoke up the highway tomarrow morning, be embarrased and hope I don't get a ticket, see what the dealer has to say and charge! Will post results lwhen avaiable.

 

[SmokeShow]

Any word on the cause yet?

 

[swampfox]

loud tapping

Heard from dealer today, they are going to order injectors to be covered under the extended warranty/recall, however they are going to charge me $389 for diagnosis and flushing fuel rails. I was just looking at the TSB and it says there is no charge, so I think they are trying to put one on me! What are your thoughts?

 

[skeeterkilr]

you need to call gm customer service is what i think. they're paid by gm for diagnosis. actually i'd start with the service manager. techs and advisors don't always play by the rules so atleast give their boss the benefit of the doubt and start with him.

i pulled this off of the bulletin:

This special policy covers the condition described above for a period of 7 years or 200,000 miles (320,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership. The repairs will be made at no charge to the customer.

Important: This special policy only covers the above noted failure modes, which are identified by high fuel return flow.

For 2001-2002 vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after May 25, 2004, are covered by this special policy and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to May 25, 2004 must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

For 2003 vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after October 10, 2006 are covered by this special policy and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to October 10, 2006 must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

 

[swampfox]

loud tapping

you need to call gm customer service is what i think. they're paid by gm for diagnosis. actually i'd start with the service manager. techs and advisors don't always play by the rules so atleast give their boss the benefit of the doubt and start with him.

i pulled this off of the bulletin:

This special policy covers the condition described above for a period of 7 years or 200,000 miles (320,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership. The repairs will be made at no charge to the customer.

Important: This special policy only covers the above noted failure modes, which are identified by high fuel return flow.

For 2001-2002 vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after May 25, 2004, are covered by this special policy and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to May 25, 2004 must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

For 2003 vehicles covered by Vehicle Service Contracts, all eligible claims with repair orders on or after October 10, 2006 are covered by this special policy and must be submitted using the labor operation codes provided with this bulletin. Claims with repair orders prior to October 10, 2006 must be submitted to the Service Contract provider.

Thanks skeeterkilr! That is along the line I was thinking,but it probally won't do any good. Will let you know next week.

 

[ob_1jr]

that special policy only includes the symptoms in it to be free of charge. If the dealer was going to charge you to diagnos it and change your injectors for free without those symptoms, I would just pay the $400. IIRC you have to have high fuel return rate and/or fuel in the crank case. It lists all this under special policy 04039 (there was a newer version that came out to include the 03s too).

 

[swampfox]

Loud Tapping

Well I heard from the dealer again today, they say all 8 of my fuel injector lines are corroded and they will cost me another $800 bucks,this would put my cost up to almost $1200. I called GM and started a case,will let you know what happens.

 

[skeeterkilr]

that special policy only includes the symptoms in it to be free of charge. If the dealer was going to charge you to diagnos it and change your injectors for free without those symptoms, I would just pay the $400. IIRC you have to have high fuel return rate and/or fuel in the crank case. It lists all this under special policy 04039 (there was a newer version that came out to include the 03s too).

i realize people do things differently in all parts of the country and different things break on vehicles depending on what part of the country they're at. i can tell you that we've never charged a person for this special policy. symptoms are one thing but when the root cause of the failure is related to the injectors, then all cost are absorbed by the special policy. and we've never had an issue getting our money from gm. we've never flushed a fuel rail or been told to do it so i can't advise you on that.

as far as your fuel lines go, i don't know what to tell you. but if they had to be damaged to remove the injectors then i'd be talking to gm about covering them as consequential damage.

like i said, i realize people do things differently and this is only how we do it.

and i don't want to cause a rift between you and your dealer either. i don't want to be the "some guy on the internet said...". just trying to give you a couple ideas to go after.

 

[ob_1jr]

Yeah, but some dealers can be real $hitty about doing warranty work. If you don't like an answer you get at one dealer, it is best to try another, but in some cases you have no choice. Just like some dealers don't care if you have programmers on the truck while others will blacklist you if they even think you did. I have a good dealer here...I bought my truck with the programmer on it that they installed....I have a demo truck that the owner used before I bought it.

 

[skeeterkilr]

oh no doubt about it. let me tell ya we're no prize on aftermarket stuff ourselves. of course my boss literally doesn't know how to change his own oil so he has no idea what aftermarket products effect and by how much. to some extent i can see how dealers get the attitude about warranty as warranty pays less for parts and has a lower labor rate than customers. gm pays 10% over cost for parts at our dealer and right around $89.00 per hour to the shop for labor. hyundai paid less on both when we had them. our customers pay 40-90% over cost on parts and $110 an hour for labor. too many dealers try and exploit this and don't both trying to do the right thing.

 

[JakeGMCHD]

My dealer covers all the parts needed to replace the injectors. All seals, lines, cups, and whatever else is needed. My truck is going in Monday for the third set of injectors under warranty. I've been driving it on 6 cyclinders firing. Truck starts on the 2nd or 3rd attempt since the temps have dropped to the 20's here.

 

[swampfox]

Loud Tapping

Got it back today! Didnt cost me as much as I thought probably because I complained so much. The total was $824.99 , $227 labor, $525 parts plus misc and tax.Hows that for a recall? They replaced 4 pipes ( from rail to injector) 3 have some external rust on them one I don't see anything wrong with it. They were going to replace all 8 of them until I told them I wanted the removed parts! However I'm not a happy camper, I have filed a complaint with GM cust service and will persue(sp) this furthur,probably to no avail. One thing for sure I won't be having any business dealing with these crooks again. O yes they also had to reprogram the PCM and replace the surge tank cap. also preformed diesel fuel rail flush.:

 

[skeeterkilr]

just remember, this isn't considered a recall. this is a special policy. whether or not it should or shouldn't be a full recall is our opinion. sucks you had to shell out money for it. did they say why they hads to flush the fuel rails? anything about "critters" in the fuel or anything?

glad you got it back though. hopefully someone can get you some satisfaction. that's one nice thing about gm. if you don't like your dealer you can usually just head down the road to a different one.

 

[swampfox]

LoudTapping

just remember, this isn't considered a recall. this is a special policy. whether or not it should or shouldn't be a full recall is our opinion. sucks you had to shell out money for it. did they say why they hads to flush the fuel rails? anything about "critters" in the fuel or anything?

glad you got it back though. hopefully someone can get you some satisfaction. that's one nice thing about gm. if you don't like your dealer you can usually just head down the road to a different one.

Thanks to all for the help! No they didn't find anything in the fuel ,it is their policy to flush rails any time they replace injectors, need it or not(at a couple hundred bucks). I just feel they are adding things on which the customer cannot contest to increase profit. I cant really contest (flushing fuel rails, programing PCM, ect) all labor charges.