I agree with you.. I drove a stock 2010 6.4 last week and it has nothing on a stock duramax. I threw my old edge tuner on level 3 in it for a buddy and he loved the difference. I still wasn't impressed though.A stock ford won't beat a stock duramax. As long as the year is pretty much equal. Lmm stock will beat a stock 6.4 so will an lbz.