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Baldwin knows how to build a filter, that's for sure. Right now I actually have 3 of their filters on my truck, oil and my lift pump, good to see consistent quality from them in this thread.
 

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Things I think are important and things I don't think make all that much difference. Not that my opinion matters much but still...

Bypass valve in the filter. I don't care much about this feature. It is already built into the filter base. It would only be necessary in the filter if the filter media was not capable of handling the factory pressure drop. In which case I'd prefer a filter that could handle the pressure drop, not one that bypassed it.

Even pleat spacing. The more even the better but I don't think it is a big deal. As long as the pleats don't touch it wouldn't make much difference. The pleats get pushed together in normal operation anyway by the pressure drop across them.

Pleat spacing material. I think it would be a good thing to have a wire mesh between the pleats to hold them open. In the absence of any such provision you always see the most material collected at the bottom of the pleats. The pressure drop pushes the pleats together and then most of the oil flows through the bottom of the pleat. This reduces the effective media size to a small fraction of what it could be. The stripe of glue that we often see around the media would do little to prevent media collapse, pleat against pleat.

Glue distribution. As an over indicator of the care put into the manufacture of the product this indicates something but as to actual usefulness I don't think it matters much. As long as the filter media is sealed it is good.

End cap material. Metal is probably better than paper but the filter media and end cap provide a lot of support for each other so I don't think it makes a lot of difference unless you push the change intervals. If the pressure drop across the filter gets high then a paper end cap would collapse sooner than a metal one would.

Shell metal thickness. I've never seen a filter blow out or split. I guess it could happen but I've seen a few thousand filters and never seen the problem. Thicker metal might feel nicer in hand and resist being punctured by something more but I don't think it matters much. If may be an indicator of higher overall quality though.

Mounting flange. The quality of the threads in the flange isn't an issue except I once had a filter with no threads. It was a Wix. It's hard to install such a filter. This failure did a lot to lower my opinion of Wix. I have never had an oil filter strip out the threads so if they are there they are probably good enough. I don't see the size or shape of the oil holes as being a major concern. It takes surprisingly little hole area to be more than what the oil has to pass through elsewhere. The thickness of the material could be important if it got so thin that the gasket couldn't seal but I've never seen that so I don't think it is important. However, it is another indicator of overall quality. All else being equal, I'll take a thick base with large holes and well cut threads.

Filter media. This is the heart of the product and to me is the most important item. Many filters use cellulose fibers. That is code for wood pulp which is code for paper. I see no real problem with using cellulose as long as it is processed well to produce a uniform product that meets the desired use. If it is reinforce with other materials to improve it's properties then so much the better. Other filter materials like cotton waste, fiberglass mesh and synthetic fibers have possibilities. If they can be shown by testing to be better in some way then that would be good.

Filter efficiency. This is definitely an area where more isn't necessarily better. Neither is less. Many of the additives we depend on can be filtered out which would be a bad thing. I don't know where the Goldilocks zone is but there is one. Less filtering leaves too much junk in the system. Too much filtering removes additives.

Filter media area. This is a criteria that is almost always better when there is more. At some point the filter would be filled up with media and that would be bad. A filter that is too big to fit would be useless. Generally, though, the fatter, longer and fuller the filter is with media the better.

Dual media. I guess there is a theory that makes this a reasonable thing to do. If you have a relatively open material that gets full flow it will keep the oil moving under cold conditions. It might not remove that much dirt but as long as it keeps the oil on the parts and removes the worst of the junk then it would be okay. Then a finer material that really cleans the oil but doesn't handle all of it all of the time that would keep the oil clean over time would be good too. That is unless it took out the additives too. This is the same theory as a bypass filtration system where the bypassed oil goes through a very fine filter. It just puts both systems into one can. I just fear that this might step over the line into the too clean area.

Packaging. It doesn't matter too much to me. I'll take a bulk filter with no box or other packaging if I'm sure it is relatively young and has been handled properly. But if it is sitting on the shelf of a shop with dust everywhere and lots of humidity then I'd like it to be well protected. I've seen a few rusted filter bases and suspect the insides are rusted as well. Those don't go on my or my customer's vehicles. Plastic wrapping is a double edged sword to me. It ensures that the filter is in good shape but it also makes it harder to open the thing up. Sixes.

Central core. The function of this part is to hold the filter media in place so it doesn't wind up in a wad at the outlet. It needs to be strong enough to resist some pressure but the amount of pressure isn't very high. I don't know which cost more to do, louvers or punching but it seems to me that louver dimples are less likely to erode the media than punched holes that may even have burrs on them. In either case it is desirable that the pleats fit close to the central core so that they don't tear away from the end plate and base when there is a pressure drop across the media.

The company behind the product. I am extremely impressed by Champion's approach to the problems AlsoBob has turned up. Anyone can make a mistake and perfection is an unattainable goal. What counts more is what someone does after the mistake is made. I don't know what more Champion could have done. I'll take a good company that owns up over a blame shifter anyday.

Consistency. This is really important to me. The best filter ever made is hardly worth looking at if it is a sometimes thing. I'd rather have a good filter that is always good than an excellent filter that is sometimes poor.

Final observation. The majority of people, by a wide margin, don't know or care about oil filter details. They take their vehicles to lube shops that use the cheapest products available in order to maximize profits. There are a lot of sub $2 filters running around out there. And yet those engines are not dying left and right. All of this thread is aimed at the perfectionists among us. I'm glad to have all of the info, especially about the Fram filters on one end and the Baldwins on the other. With a bit of knowledge it is possible to have something much better for no more money and that is a good thing. To me that is the value of this thread.
 

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I read a lot of that article but not quite all. I didn't find anything new there to me which is a good thing. Most of the time there will be some kind of nonsense mixed in with a few gems of truth. In this case I can find nothing worthy of complaining about.

Very good article. Thanks AlisoBob for linking to it.
 

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Discussion Starter #169


Everyone should ask themselves... " How does my filter rate, using this criteria...."
 

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Discussion Starter #170
I've got other projects and Honey-Do's piling up everywhere.

I dont think I'll ever get around to cutting the filter elements apart to measure stuff like filter service area.

Does anyone want to pick up, where I left off?

I gotta' get this pile of filters out of my garage....

:grin2::grin2::grin2::grin2:
 

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because it filters better than any spin on, I have the ultra sonic cleaner which cleans filter while oil is draining, plus im doing my part by not throwing oil filters away, a regular oil filter is paper and tin saw one in half. the HUBB all stainless 99% efficiency down to 5 microns, when a standard oil filter starts to clog oil flow slows down to the engine not with the HUBB the secondary oil filter starts after the first one slows down,so HUBB increase the flow up to five times greater than a regular filter, using amsoil and this filter it tests perfect, it it was to save money I would not have bought a $70,000
 

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I hadn't heard of HUBB so I checked it out. I had just intended to provide some perspective for myself and others who might care. As it turns out, this is going to be something of a pan of the HUBB system, at least as far as individuals goes.


This looks like a good filter system. 99% at 25 microns and filtering down to 5 microns is pretty good. If it were 99% at 5 microns then you would be filtering out some additives too which isn't a good thing. Some of the info suggests filtering down to 2 microns, which is too fine.

However, this is something aimed at fleets, not individuals. Not only is the filter as expensive as 20 regular filters but it is only guaranteed for 100,000 miles, at least according to the literature.

When you follow our agreed cleaning cycles you will have the additional comfort of our 100,000 mile or 5,000 hour performance guarantee.

If you exceed that with the same filter then it isn't guaranteed anymore.

If you still did 5,000 miles between oil changes then the cost of filters would just about be equal. That doesn't take into account the cleaning of the filters. Reasonably the only way to do this would be to have your own ultrasonic cleaner. That is an additional $210. The cleaning fluid, a proprietary detergent, is another $41. Step seven in the cleaning process is:


Seven
Recycle the used cleaning concentrate and water in accordance with EPA guidelines.

In another place it says that the fluid does not require any special handling so the situation is murky.

HUBB talks about joining the movement. If I join a movement it will be to end hunger, stop war, improve education or something similar. It won't be about filtering oil. I find such a statement to be concerning. Are they looking for customers or converts?

Something I find to be the hallmark of evangelism, in addition to a call to join this or that, is false statements about the competition. Like this:

And unlike conventional filters, this 2nd pressure differential closes when the oil flow returns to normal.

I don't know of any conventional filter that opens a bypass valve and then leaves it open regardless.

I found more things I consider to be red flags but that's enough to be getting on with.

If I had a fleet of trucks and serviced them at a central shop(s) then this is something I might consider. In that situation the 100,000 mile/5,000 hour limitation might not mean as much because I could develop my own service history and proceed accordingly.

There is a statement on HUBB's web site about used filters being hazardous waste. Last I heard about it, all you have to do to be EPA compliant on oil filters is to drain and crush them. Then they become ordinary solid waste. No big deal but as a concerned citizen I might feel better about no filter waste at all.

This is the sort of thing that falls into the same category as bypass oil filters. It's something you could do but does it make sense? Money is always an issue. Even those who have plenty to spend should be concerned about getting the most out of it. I don't see this as good economics for many individuals. The Baldwin and Donaldson filters offer a lot of protection at a reasonable price. I don't see the need for something else that costs so much and offers so little extra.
 

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Discussion Starter #176
I don't see the need for something else that costs so much and offers so little extra.
WORD.

I do have a fleet..... it's a small one, but a fleet none the less.

A Baldwin is $9. A mechanic is $30. For him is remove the filter, clean it, blow it out, and reassemble it is 30 minutes labor minimum. That's $15, not counting the ultrasonic cleaner , the solvents, and everything else.

BTW, the most efficient filter in terms of micron removal is not your's, but this......
https://www.duramaxforum.com/forum/maintenance/994055-lml-donaldson-dbl7483-oil-filter-conversion.html

15 microns at 99.9% efficiency.

Its cheap too.... $10 per 10k miles driven. Thats the same as $200 for 200k miles.

:laugh:
 

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I don't mean to disparage those who want to do more than is needed. We all have our own little quirks and compulsions. If someone wants to wash their truck every day, come rain or shine, then wash away. If you like to polish your shoes until they glow in the dark, great. If you are feeling a little shaggy because it's been 3 days since the last barber visit then get a trim.

I don't know of anyone that doesn't do something that doesn't make sense and trucks are often the focus of obsession. It makes as much sense to use a HUBB oil filter as it does to have dual 200 gph lift pumps and 5 fuel filters on a stock truck. Do what makes you happy and don't look back.
 
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