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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry for all the new posts, I promise that I search for these things first.

So...how much pitting is too much? I'm close to putting the new gaskets and heads on. I used my Roloc Bristle Disc (great tool) to remove the bulk of the gunk on the deck. Then I glued 600 grit sandpaper to an 8" flat bar and sanded it. Check out the pitting around the water jacket ports. These are the worst of them. ImageUploadedByAG Free1417989662.763211.jpg ImageUploadedByAG Free1417989682.970365.jpg ImageUploadedByAG Free1417989700.540211.jpg I'm not getting this thing machines...think it'll be ok??

Thanks
ImageUploadedByAG Free1417989629.939041.jpg


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FYI, ANY type of sanding disc. AKA roloc, sandpaper is not the recommended cleaning approach. I see you stuffed shop towels in the block, good start, but that sanding grit gets everywhere, unless you dip the block and heads AFTER sanding that material can and has taken out bearings. As far as the pitting, no problem.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
FYI, ANY type of sanding disc. AKA roloc, sandpaper is not the recommended cleaning approach. I see you stuffed shop towels in the block, good start, but that sanding grit gets everywhere, unless you dip the block and heads AFTER sanding that material can and has taken out bearings. As far as the pitting, no problem.

How are we supposed to clean the deck then? I thought the GM recommended procedure was to wet sand 600 grit on a piece of 2x4 steel?


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Yes normally that's the safest way is to use the sand paper on a piece of steel that is flat and do it in strokes from one end to the other cuz if you sit in one spot and sand the piss out of it for a while could take enough off to cause issues
 

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This;



Notice: Do not use abrasive pad/bristle devices to clean the gasket surfaces of engine components. Abrasive pads should not be used for the following reasons:

Abrasive pads will produce fine grit that the oil filter will not be able to remove from the oil. THIS GRIT IS ABRASIVE AND HAS BEEN KNOWN TO CAUSE INTERNAL ENGINE DAMAGE. Abrasive pads can easily remove enough material to round cylinder head surfaces. This has been known to affect the gasket's ability to seal, especially in the narrow seal areas between the combustion chambers and coolant jackets.
Abrasive pads, wire and abrasive rubber finger wheels can also remove enough metal to affect cylinder head, block, oil pan rail, and intake manifold runner flatness, which can cause coolant and oil leaks and air leaks. It takes about 15♦seconds to remove 0.203♦mm (0.008♦in) of metal with an abrasive pad.
Abrasive pads, Abrasive rubber fingers wheels & wire wheels with high speeds grinders produce air bourne debris that can travel throughout the shop contaminating other work being performed outside of the immediate work area.
When cleaning engine gasket sealing surfaces and/or cleaning parts from an engine that are to be reused, surface conditioning disks (typically constructed of woven fiber or molded bristles) that contain abrasives, such as a high amount of Aluminum Oxide, should NOT be used.

The use of such surface conditioning disks dislodges Aluminum Oxide (from the disk) and metal particles, which can lead to premature engine bearing failure.

The presence of Aluminum Oxide in engine oil has been shown to cause premature engine bearing failure. In some cases, this failure occurs in as little as 2,200♦km (1,367♦mi) or less after the repair has been made.

Surface conditioning disks may grind the component material and imbed it into the disk. This can result when more aggressive grinding of the gasket surface takes place.

Recommended Cleaning Procedure
General Motors recommends the use of a razor blade or plastic gasket scraper to clean the gasket surface on engine components that are to be reused. When cleaning gasket surfaces, please note the following:

When using a razor blade type gasket scraper, use a new razor blade for each cylinder head and corresponding block surface. Hold the blade as parallel to the gasket surface as possible. This will ensure that the razor blade does not gouge or scratch the gasket surfaces.
Do not gouge or scrape the combustion chamber surfaces.
Do not gouge or scratch any engine-sealing surface during the cleaning process.
Alternative Cleaning Method:

To properly clean the sealing surface prior to reassembly, GM Low VOC Cleaner, P/N♦19287401 (in Canada, P/N 88901247), should be sprayed on the mating surface. Use care to avoid getting solvent in any area other than the mating surface to be cleaned. Allow it to soak in for several minutes to loosen the old RTV sealer/gasket material. GM strongly recommends using a plastic razor blade or non- metallic scraper to remove all loose sealer/gasket material.

Important: The appearance of the gasket surface is not critical — the feel is. There will be indentations from the gasket left in the cylinder head after all the gasket material is removed. The new gasket will fill these small indentations when it is installed.
 

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Reign in Blood
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Sanding grit and oil makes an excellent lapping compound...
 

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Excellent addition to community knowledge base!

Momslbz,

Only thing that could have been better was chapter and verse on your source, not that I have the slightest doubt. Always best to hear from the folks who built the darn engine in the first place.

And all you had to do was make time to copy/paste :).

Mercifully, I'll never get as far into my Duramax as nevs83, but good to know 411 is easily available on this excellent site!

Thanks and all best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Ok so what's done is done. What can I do about it now?...short of completely tearing it down and rinsing it?

Forgive my ignorance in that I don't know the whole path of travel of the oil.....but is there a way to maybe rinse out the bottom of the engine in oil and then just pull the lower oil pain and dump it/clean it out?


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We forgot about the OP!

nevs83,

Spent a bit of Google time looking for an answer to your dilemma but, not surprisingly, everything I found addressed thorough cleaning of disassembled engines that have had machine work done. Also a few sad stories of engines that got drowned in mud baths, inhaled dirty water and, without major intervention, eventually grenaded.

As you probably know, the really troublesome engine contaminants are those whose sizes approximate bearing clearances. Smaller (except in our fuel systems!) just stay in suspension and the larger ones get trapped in the oil filter.

So how you get rid of sanding grit without a complete tear down?

Here are some thoughts, that steal unapologetically from your own ideas. Since it appears the cylinder walls are well protected with assembly lube (?) I'd begin by thoroughly cleaning all reachable lube from that area with a dry cloth. Any solvent would seem to me to just put the grit into solution and let it fall past the rings. I'm thinking any sand paper grit that fell in the cylinders should be stuck in that lube.

Clean what you can see from the cylinders as the pistons sit (follow up with Q-tips?). Then rotate the engine slightly. Falling pistons should drag most remaining lube down the walls, where you can clean further. Rising pistons are going to spread the lube up the walls, but maybe most of that will be cleared when the pistons drop. Again, whatever dry cleaning material you can use to get around the tops of the pistons, before you turn the engine, should minimize remaining grit.

Water passages can be dealt with by simple coolant flush, but those oil passages will be troublesome. While some folks might be inclined to put everything back together and rely on a couple of oil changes to clean things up, by that time the engine has started and that sanding debris is everywhere!

Here's where your idea comes in. How about using a syringe and suitable solvent (kero?) to flush whatever is in those oil passages down into the sump? That technique would work on the gravity returns, but the pressurized openings that go down to the oil pump are another story and obviously they connect to other oil galleries. Someone who knows a lot more than I do about that part of the Duramax can tell you if pulling the pan (no walk in the park, I understand) and the oil pump would allow a free flow of solvent from the head decks.

And of course follow up with an engine flush later. I chastised a buddy for flushing with Mobil 1, but it was his $$$:rof.

Let's see what Forum members suggest and maybe you can get by without a complete tear-down.

Did I mention I've never tried any of these suggestions myself? You have my sympathies and I sincerely hope this all goes well.:poke[1]:.

All the best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
nevs83,



Spent a bit of Google time looking for an answer to your dilemma but, not surprisingly, everything I found addressed thorough cleaning of disassembled engines that have had machine work done. Also a few sad stories of engines that got drowned in mud baths, inhaled dirty water and, without major intervention, eventually grenaded.



As you probably know, the really troublesome engine contaminants are those whose sizes approximate bearing clearances. Smaller (except in our fuel systems!) just stay in suspension and the larger ones get trapped in the oil filter.



So how you get rid of sanding grit without a complete tear down?



Here are some thoughts, that steal unapologetically from your own ideas. Since it appears the cylinder walls are well protected with assembly lube (?) I'd begin by thoroughly cleaning all reachable lube from that area with a dry cloth. Any solvent would seem to me to just put the grit into solution and let it fall past the rings. I'm thinking any sand paper grit that fell in the cylinders should be stuck in that lube.



Clean what you can see from the cylinders as the pistons sit (follow up with Q-tips?). Then rotate the engine slightly. Falling pistons should drag most remaining lube down the walls, where you can clean further. Rising pistons are going to spread the lube up the walls, but maybe most of that will be cleared when the pistons drop. Again, whatever dry cleaning material you can use to get around the tops of the pistons, before you turn the engine, should minimize remaining grit.



Water passages can be dealt with by simple coolant flush, but those oil passages will be troublesome. While some folks might be inclined to put everything back together and rely on a couple of oil changes to clean things up, by that time the engine has started and that sanding debris is everywhere!



Here's where your idea comes in. How about using a syringe and suitable solvent (kero?) to flush whatever is in those oil passages down into the sump? That technique would work on the gravity returns, but the pressurized openings that go down to the oil pump are another story and obviously they connect to other oil galleries. Someone who knows a lot more than I do about that part of the Duramax can tell you if pulling the pan (no walk in the park, I understand) and the oil pump would allow a free flow of solvent from the head decks.



And of course follow up with an engine flush later. I chastised a buddy for flushing with Mobil 1, but it was his $$$:rof.



Let's see what Forum members suggest and maybe you can get by without a complete tear-down.



Did I mention I've never tried any of these suggestions myself? You have my sympathies and I sincerely hope this all goes well.:poke[1]:.





All the best.
Thanks for checking on it. I like your suggestions and I can't see how they would hurt. Your concern seems to be mostly of contaminates getting past the Pistons. What about the openings above the Pistons? Those are going to camshaft right?...what concern should I have there?

I would also love to hear from others about flushing the oil



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a bypass filter might be able to filter the contaminants out of the oil before significant damage is done, however if it were my block, and i know this is not what you want to hear, i would tear it apart and hot tank it, that is unless you have funds laying around for a new block, which i do not.
 

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Completely from a mechanics stand point, I would not reassemble that engine until it and all the components have been torn down and cleaned properly. I would suggest taking it to a good machine shop and let them run all the parts through their cleaning equipment to remove all of the sanding debris and shavings from the block and parts. Trying to "flush" this stuff out is just going to embed the material further into the system components and result in a very short life for the engine.
 

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Just my opinion, different from the rest here obviously. My thought is that wet sanding should have kept any grit from the sand paper in suspension in the water. Clean out any residue you can see, drip marks etc, and run it. I just prepped my deck the same way with 600 grit wet sanding and that's what I'm going to do anyway.

Also, I just read something yesterday that said the appearance of the deck is not as important as the feel. Run you finger nails over those areas and see what they feel like. If you can't feel them or can't hook a nail on them don't sweat it.
 

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That's easy enough for me to say...

Completely from a mechanics stand point, I would not reassemble that engine until it and all the components have been torn down and cleaned properly. I would suggest taking it to a good machine shop and let them run all the parts through their cleaning equipment to remove all of the sanding debris and shavings from the block and parts. Trying to "flush" this stuff out is just going to embed the material further into the system components and result in a very short life for the engine.
jmr17x,

While I believe your suggestions are sound, have you considered the only place the grit and deck filings have gone at this point are primarily into the wide open cylinders, where it's stuck to the lube, with much smaller amounts finding their way into the oil supply/return and cooling system passages which I wrote about dealing with earlier. Regarding the cam area, hold the paper towels down with your fingers and vacuum the s$&t out of each section. Then keep the vac going as you pull each piece and vacuum as far into the openings as possible.

Unfortunately, the crap we're concerned about is mostly invisible to the naked eye (see quote above).

Regarding the cylinders, I recall once adapting plastic tubing to a wet/dry shop vac for some long forgotten reason and I wonder if, after wiping out the cylinders as well as possible, and without moving the crank at all, a very small amount of non-flammable solvent could be carefully added around the edge of each piston, immediately followed by the modified shop vac to pull out the solvent/grit solution from above the top compression rings. Rags would be of no use at this point.

I know I'm really going out on a limb, from the comfort of my couch and with someone else's engine, but I think cleaning the cylinder walls as described and flushing the oil supply/return openings thoroughly, followed by a flush after restart, should work. Again, it's not like the engine ran and spread grit throughout the engine, only the exposed areas.

Reading 02NBLB7's reply leads me to believe at least a few folks have used some distinctly non-GMC approved techniques for removing head gasket materials (I've gone all Yosemite Sam on my 2.0 Alfa head) but we don't know what precautions may have been taken (rags in every cylinder and cotton balls in all the other passages?). And we also don't know if they just did their work last week and the worst is yet to come.

Anyone care to fess up?

I suspect many, many blocks, since the IC engine was developed, have been subject to non-approved gasket cleaning efforts, checked for flatness and reassembled without a trip to the machine shop for planing and dipping. Now, how long did they run afterwards until oil pressure began falling, bearings rattled and blow-by started consuming oil? Dunno, I haven't been counting. But according to trusted member and mechanic, jmr17x, not too long...

Also, I don't believe the OP mentioned wet sanding.

A tough decision, or maybe a very easy one, for OP.

All the best.
 

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Just my opinion, different from the rest here obviously. My thought is that wet sanding should have kept any grit from the sand paper in suspension in the water. Clean out any residue you can see, drip marks etc, and run it. I just prepped my deck the same way with 600 grit wet sanding and that's what I'm going to do anyway.

Also, I just read something yesterday that said the appearance of the deck is not as important as the feel. Run you finger nails over those areas and see what they feel like. If you can't feel them or can't hook a nail on them don't sweat it.
He also used an abrasive media disc on it...I believe that is where the concern lies.
 

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The grooves from the fire rings is more bothersome than the slight corrosion around the water ports.
ML gaskets like super smooth surfaces to seal properly.
 
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