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Discussion Starter #1
Is anyone running high flow pipes and exhaust manifold. Tips on putting them on and benefits or noticeable difference. Any pros or cons?


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From what I have read from other threads, lower egts is the biggest gain. A good upgrade if you tow a lot or if you run a programmer on a performance tune. Not really a must have for most people, nice to do if you have some extra money though.
 

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I already did the egr delete , and put in the new air pipe that goes to the y bridge.



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Over the past two weeks, i've been researching this. From what i've read, the exhaust note will be a little bit deeper. For stock, non-tuned trucks, not much noticeable difference from the drivers seat and minimal MPG gain, on the dyno HP/TQ numbers do improve slightly. The biggest gains is If the truck has a tuner, such as EFI Live, there will be a more noticeable difference on the higher HP settings, where the program calls for more fuel. Increasing intake flow will see slightly more gains, but there is a limit with a stock turbo. I tow a 5th wheel and other than 5-6 thousand miles a year towing, the truck is a daily driver. For my money, and to help the EFI Live (Idaho Rob tune) I'm looking at the Dmaxstore package deal, just under 800 for teh LMM (the 200 bucks for the coolant hose is rather steep and makes me hesitant). #dmaxstore (Sale) Max-Flow Up Pipes & Manifolds W/ FREE Downpipe, 2004.5-2010 GM 6.6L Duramax | DMAX Store
 

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Over the past two weeks, i've been researching this. From what i've read, the exhaust note will be a little bit deeper. For stock, non-tuned trucks, not much noticeable difference from the drivers seat and minimal MPG gain, on the dyno HP/TQ numbers do improve slightly. The biggest gains is If the truck has a tuner, such as EFI Live, there will be a more noticeable difference on the higher HP settings, where the program calls for more fuel. Increasing intake flow will see slightly more gains, but there is a limit with a stock turbo. I tow a 5th wheel and other than 5-6 thousand miles a year towing, the truck is a daily driver. For my money, and to help the EFI Live (Idaho Rob tune) I'm looking at the Dmaxstore package deal, just under 800 for teh LMM (the 200 bucks for the coolant hose is rather steep and makes me hesitant). #dmaxstore (Sale) Max-Flow Up Pipes & Manifolds W/ FREE Downpipe, 2004.5-2010 GM 6.6L Duramax | DMAX Store
been looking at that set myself.

Btw, i read somewhere that Idaho Rob no longer tunes. Something about EPA? Is this true? if so, where would one recommend going for EFI live tunes? i'm looking to do minor mods but want dpf/egr gone.
 

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been looking at that set myself.

Btw, i read somewhere that Idaho Rob no longer tunes. Something about EPA? Is this true? if so, where would one recommend going for EFI live tunes? i'm looking to do minor mods but want dpf/egr gone.
Yes, unfortunately Idaho Rob no longer tunes by the last report, you could always give them a phone call to verify this.
Ridge Runner Diesel, PPEI, Motor Ops, Danville Performance all might be questionable with the EPA stuff, except for maybe Motor Ops which is in Canada, kinda like a step-sister EFI tuning company Dmax Tuner refers customers to.
Call for pricing, I think RRD might be have better pricing.

I feel downpipe back is good enough unless you building a racer, even a aftermarket downpipe doesn't do squat IMO.
Did the diamond eye 3" downpipe because of all the claims with big gains, didn't notice anything except my wallet was lighter.

I wouldn't waist my $$$ on a aftermarket downpipe unless your having issues with your stock one.
 

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Obviously I am a vendor on here (for the Dmax Store), but I spent my hard earned dollars on the Max-Flow manifolds/up pipes and down pipe. I tow a fair amount, and daily drive my truck, reliability and cool EGT's are in mind with most mods to my truck. That being said I did some baselines before and after, here are the results that I pulled out of my truck build thread...

Tune 3 (PPEI - stock trans tune) climbing a pretty good grade to my house (daily commute - 7% grade), 3000ft elevation, 65mph, 1,580 rpm.

Before...
Avg Boost: 11psi
Drive Pressure: 7.8psi
EGT (maniford): 1,150
EGT (downpipe): 789

After...
Avg Boost: 11psi
Drive Pressure: 7.3psi
EGT (maniford): 1,090
EGT (downpipe): 748

Throttle response... No scientific data here, just seat of the pants. Feels like from a dead stop (stop light) with no boost, it might take maybe 1/2 second longer to start building boost, but once you have some boost (driving down the road running 3lbs for instance) and you put your foot into it, it feels like it spools up way quicker. From watching gauges, looks like I am running a little under 10% lower drive pressure (every day driving, towing, hauling) and on average about 100 deg cooler EGT's at the manifolds.

Ran the test and tune at the drag strip. Some people were saying the maxflow manifold/up pipe combos were raising EGT's, they definitely don't. Before I did the DmaxStore Max Flow uppipes/downpipe/manifolds, I went to the track, ran the 1/4 mile on my PPEI stock trans tune 1 and tune 4. This was my baseline. The readings I got were Manifold EGT, downpipe EGT, max boost, drive pressure.


Tale of the track
Tune 1 - Stock ([email protected]) - Dmax Store MaxFlow ([email protected]) = .175 seconds faster
Manifold EGT - 1,290 - 1,175 = 115 deg cooler
Downpipe EGT - 629 - 578 = 51 deg cooler
Boost - 33 - 33 = same
Drive Pressure - 62.9 - 61.2 = 1.7 psi lower


Tune 4 - Stock ([email protected]) - Dmax Store MaxFlow ([email protected]) = .112 seconds faster
Manifold EGT - 1,500 - 1,480 = 20 deg cooler
Downpipe EGT - 745 - 735 = 10 deg cooler
Boost - 37 - 37 = same
Drive Pressure - 72.2 - 69.8 = 2.4 psi lower


So dropped temps, decreased drive pressure, and dropped my 1/4 mile times, thats a win in my book. Those numbers are just peak readings in the 1/4 mile, day to day driving I noticed sometimes more drastic drops (towing up grades in higher temps). Same tunes, same tire pressures, only difference was when I did my stock baseline the ambient air temp was 68 deg, and when I ran today (maxflow upgrades), ambient air temp was 77 deg, so almost 10 deg warmer. I also had a 1/4 tank of fuel (according to the gauge) first time to the track and was almost full tank this time. So 10 deg warmer air and prolly 20-25 gallons more fuel.

BTW, that setup with stock trans tunes put down 485hp at the wheels on the dyno.
 

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Drive pressure? im familiar with boost but not drive? is that the pressure on the exhaust side? Upstream or down of the turbo?
Drive pressure is the pressure build up between the head and the turbo. More efficient fixed vain turbos and exhaust systems will run close to 1:1 boost to drive pressure, on variable turbos they generally run higher numbers because the exhaust side will close to help with quicker spooling. There is no set number carved in stone, but when you start pushing higher drive pressure numbers motors don't tend to last as long, and the odds of cracking a piston or bending a rod go up significantly.

Some tuned stock turbo'd LLY would hit drive PSI number close to 3:1, I am staying below 2:1 with my current setup, which IMO is a good place to be with a VVT.
 

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Drive pressure is the pressure build up between the head and the turbo.
Thanks for the explanation but if the drive pressure is between the head and the turbo... then where do you measure boost? Or is 'between head and turbo' on the exhaust side, not intake?
 

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Thanks for the explanation but if the drive pressure is between the head and the turbo... then where do you measure boost? Or is 'between head and turbo' on the exhaust side, not intake?
Yes, that is the exhaust side. Generally people measure boost near the y bridge, which is the compressed air after it is compressed by the turbo and runs through the intercooler just prior to going into the motor.
 

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reliability and cool EGT's are in mind with most mods to my truck.
I have the same thought except i'd be lying bout the EGT part. i'm not knowledgeable on why cooler EGTs are better other than cooler engines typically last longer ... Regardless, *hat tip* for the below information.

Tune 3 (PPEI - stock trans tune) climbing a pretty good grade to my house (daily commute - 7% grade), 3000ft elevation, 65mph, 1,580 rpm.

Before...
Avg Boost: 11psi
Drive Pressure: 7.8psi
EGT (maniford): 1,150
EGT (downpipe): 789

After...
Avg Boost: 11psi
Drive Pressure: 7.3psi
EGT (maniford): 1,090
EGT (downpipe): 748

Throttle response... No scientific data here, just seat of the pants. Feels like from a dead stop (stop light) with no boost, it might take maybe 1/2 second longer to start building boost, but once you have some boost (driving down the road running 3lbs for instance) and you put your foot into it, it feels like it spools up way quicker. From watching gauges, looks like I am running a little under 10% lower drive pressure (every day driving, towing, hauling) and on average about 100 deg cooler EGT's at the manifolds.

Ran the test and tune at the drag strip. Some people were saying the maxflow manifold/up pipe combos were raising EGT's, they definitely don't. Before I did the DmaxStore Max Flow uppipes/downpipe/manifolds, I went to the track, ran the 1/4 mile on my PPEI stock trans tune 1 and tune 4. This was my baseline. The readings I got were Manifold EGT, downpipe EGT, max boost, drive pressure.


Tale of the track
Tune 1 - Stock ([email protected]) - Dmax Store MaxFlow ([email protected]) = .175 seconds faster
Manifold EGT - 1,290 - 1,175 = 115 deg cooler
Downpipe EGT - 629 - 578 = 51 deg cooler
Boost - 33 - 33 = same
Drive Pressure - 62.9 - 61.2 = 1.7 psi lower


Tune 4 - Stock ([email protected]) - Dmax Store MaxFlow ([email protected]) = .112 seconds faster
Manifold EGT - 1,500 - 1,480 = 20 deg cooler
Downpipe EGT - 745 - 735 = 10 deg cooler
Boost - 37 - 37 = same
Drive Pressure - 72.2 - 69.8 = 2.4 psi lower


So dropped temps, decreased drive pressure, and dropped my 1/4 mile times, thats a win in my book. Those numbers are just peak readings in the 1/4 mile, day to day driving I noticed sometimes more drastic drops (towing up grades in higher temps). Same tunes, same tire pressures, only difference was when I did my stock baseline the ambient air temp was 68 deg, and when I ran today (maxflow upgrades), ambient air temp was 77 deg, so almost 10 deg warmer. I also had a 1/4 tank of fuel (according to the gauge) first time to the track and was almost full tank this time. So 10 deg warmer air and prolly 20-25 gallons more fuel.

BTW, that setup with stock trans tunes put down 485hp at the wheels on the dyno.
 

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Hot EGT's make lots of things hotter. When gas temps are high the turbo runs hotter. The turbo is cooled with coolant from the motor and also has oil running through it. So a hotter turbo will heat up the coolant and engine oil, as well as heat up the air going into the engine more than it already is. More heat = less power, harder on oil, causes more metal expansion, ect.
 

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Yes, that is the exhaust side. Generally people measure boost near the y bridge, which is the compressed air after it is compressed by the turbo and runs through the intercooler just prior to going into the motor.
You have additional sensors to obtain this info on boost/drive pressure or can you get them from PIDs with an EDGE-type device? considering you have manifold and dp temps i assume you have additional sensors but i'm not completely familiar with what all is available on stock. Need to pick me up one of them Edge devices before i do anything so i can have baseline info like you.
 

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You have additional sensors to obtain this info on boost/drive pressure or can you get them from PIDs with an EDGE-type device? considering you have manifold and dp temps i assume you have additional sensors but i'm not completely familiar with what all is available on stock. Need to pick me up one of them Edge devices before i do anything so i can have baseline info like you.
You can see your boost using a Edge Insight (or similar device) among many other PIDS. The EGT and Drive pressure you would need to get probes to be able to see. DP temp (I have my sensor where the main exhaust hits the downpipe) I dont see a huge benefit in monitoring, I just did it as a beta since I was changing manifolds, down pipe and up-pipes. The gauges I normally keep a close eye on when towing or driving it hard are oil temp (added sensor), drive PSI (added sensor), EGT (added sensor), then fuel rail pressure, boost, trans temp and coolant temp. I keep the coolant temp displaying on my Edge Insight because the dash gauge is no where near close to accurate.
 

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Jimmy,
Thank you for all your data info, appreciate you taking the time to put it out there. Good to see the EGT drop. Did some research on Turbos earlier this year, VW (and other German cars from same engine team) put the turbo directly to the head, and are cooling the exhaust ports with engine coolant, the result was more efficient boost. One thing I learned in pilot training, cooler dryer air is denser air, we can't control the moisture content of the exhaust but we can help lower it's temp. In pilot training we learned to keep an eye on Cylinder Head Temps and oil temps, these were key indicators of engine health.

One question, did you notice any changes with the exhaust tone?

I've been looking at doing this exhaust mod when I get the transmission replaced or rebuilt, last year while towing the 5th wheel through PA, I got into it hard (EFI Live set on 5) and Allison did not like that and the driver information showed "exceeded power limits" and the check engine light came on. It self-reset when I eased up and put the tune back down to #3. Now when I tow, I can feel the slipping in 2nd and 5th, the weak links.

Ed
 

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If you continue towing on level 5, there’s no exhaust mods you could do to help.
Guaranteed you’ll trash your engine and transmission.
From your post the damage has already started.
I’m surprised your tuner didn’t give you any warnings on towing hp levels.
 
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Rarely a good idea to tow onna high hp setting, no point since when you mash it your likely just going to break the tires loose anyways. If the trans is to have a hope of not coming apart, it would need more then your average transbuild, it’s going to need specialty input and output shafts, sun gears, planetaries...you get the idea. And just so you guys realize (with your built trans), they won’t last if your beating on them constantly. A 1000hp built duramax might get 40 passes outta the trans before it needs an overhaul, so be nice to your built trans if your running it on a big tune still.

Sry for getting side tracked op
 

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One question, did you notice any changes with the exhaust tone?
I did, so did the misses. She was out of town when the manifolds, down and up pipes were replaced. I didn't tell her I did anything to the truck, we went out to the movies, and before I was even up to speed on the highway she was asking what I did to the truck, of course I asked what she meant, her exact response "it sounds deeper and more rumbly".
 
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