They gonna get us anyhow,so how do we win??Ideas..

 

Geezz, if I had the answer to that, I would be a gazillianair!! then I wouldn't care. :tease

If we could just find a way to harnness all the HOT AIR the polititions are spewing these days, we would not need ANY oil!!!!

 

^^true...:help

 

At the risk of pissing off a lot of people, and I apologize in advance, but there is a solution to high gas prices. Drill in Alaska. The Alaskans want it because they get paid. It's not like you're destroying all of the natural beauty. Besides, development has taken over the lower 48, why not Alaska. (That was kind of a joke.) Drill is Alaska to give us some relief until the car makers can figure out an economical way to build a fuel efficient car. Yeah sure some of the hybrids might get 40 mpg, but what's the cost to buy them? When you do the math it takes 10 years to make up the difference that you spent on the hybrid. Sorry for the long post, but there are solutions out there, just need to get through all of the political B.S.

 

I am partial on the subject of drilling in ANWR. Native Alaskans can get paid lots money while jobs would be created throughout the region. Remember though ANWR was set aside to be a wild life refugee. However the amount of drilling that would be done would have little, if any, long term negative effects. After all, tt would be domestic oil, not foreign oil, so I do understand where you would be coming from. However, I need to point out why I'm partial on the idea of drilling anywhere in general.

1. Oil is not just used to make diesel fuel, gasoline, jet fuel, or even kerosene for that matter. Oil is used in making plastics, pharmaceutical products, running our military (Americas biggest overall consumer of oil), the making of synthetic fibers like polyester. It is used in the production of asphalt, most cosmetics are sadly derived from it, not to mention various types of synthetic lubricants we use in are daily lives. The list goes on and on but these are just examples to name a few. By all means, in my opinion, burning oil is probably the dumbest thing we can do with it. Besides, the what does the next generation have left to use in terms of petroleum? Are we to assume that your kids and grankids are to forgo any or all of these products above? Our use of oil is a lot like how we Americans spend our money, we always use it up and never save it for a rainy day.

2. Oil companies are made for one thing, making money. Argue that how you will but at the end of the day they are not here to "keep America running" like some commercials want you to think. Making money is fine, its a part of a free society bound to a pretty damn good free market. Nevertheless, it is up to the oil company to decide where the oil goes to and NOT the American people or the American government for that matter. Again that is fine, this country does not need more regulations with regards to how businesses can and cannot operate.

Just keep in mind that most countries besides us, from Saudi Arabia to Italy, have state run oil companies. This means that the oil extracted from their wells is first given to the people of the country and then the "surplus" is sold to the world market. Our system works differently because whomever has the most money has the loudest voice. My point is that just because a well is drilled in ANWR does not mean that the fuel tanks of America will see this oil. That oil can be bought and sold abroad to whomever pays the most for it on the world market. After all, oil is a commodity. In fact, you can complain about how oil companies are making record profits but they are mostly making profits overseas (Close to 75% according to Chevrons CEO ). When gasoline is $4.00/gallon in the good old US of A and Germany is paying AT LEAST $10.00/gallon, who would you rather sell to? ( Random numbers I threw out there btw) Granted there are lot of factors that go into fuel prices in Europe, as well as aboard, but I will not dissect that here and now.

3. Remember, like BIG4D said, politicians are full of hot air. Duh, it's an ELECTION YEAR!! Any buddy with their job on the line, dealing with angry constituents in their district has to realize that 'times are a changing'. We can be apart of the do nothing yesterday crowd and keep rowing up sh*t creek with half a paddle or we can take a hit now and start changing the course of where our country goes. I do feel however that we need to snake China and India from the offshore oil that is forty miles off the coast of key west. Something there just an't right when China can drill off our coast but we can't, so I do understand the point of 'offshore drilling', opening up ANWR, and using other forms of oil deposits. However protecting what is ours and "drilling" us out of a problem are two separate issues, one has a potential reality tied to it and the other..... well you be the judge.

Curbing our overall petroleum intake is what is needed, hands down. People in this country hate being told what to do until their pants are on fire and you scream STOP, DROP, AND ROLL! IE. People trading up their SUV's for small cars. Personally, that should have been obvious years ago. But hey its a free market, do what you want with your money...

Yet look who I talk to? Men and women with trucks that run the most expensive fuel in America that couldn't squeeze 20MPG in downtown Chicago traffic even if they hypermiled the sh*t out of them. :tease Obviously these trucks were not meant for that and most of you who own crew cabs didn't buy them to be cool soccer mom and dads with pick up beds. Yet even these trucks could use some modern day tweaking. For example variable valve timing, cylinder deactivation, and on board generation systems are all technologies that General Motors posses. So where is it and why can't it be implemented into a modern day Duramax truck? In my honest opinion, conservation through improved efficiency is the key to Americas future and success. From our cars, to our homes, to our factories, and ports. This will be our only guiding light...

WorkTruck: Now how is that for a long post? O and I'm not pist off, instead I understand your frustration and sympathize with most my fellow Americans.

Bring it back home... Big4D I agree, what gives with you guys?! I must repeat and define the question, have you settled on $4.50 a gallon for diesel fuel or are you ready to free yourselves into energy independence?



Erik

P.S. I need to crash out and I'm sorry for going off topic, I'll review any and all errors in the morning or evening.

 

It's not the oil that is expensive. It's how much it is taxed.

Over here, I pay the equivalent of $2.70 a LITRE ( 3.5 litres to a US gallon) for diesel.

The UK government taxes the oil company as they produce the oil in the North Sea, they tax them when they land it to be refined, they tax us at the fuel pumps, they tax the profits the oil company makes at the year end, and THEN, they think they've not taxed them enough because the oil companies still made billions, so they invented an additional tax - an oil profit tax.

 

WorkTruck, that is the common stand we (and I mean me too) conservatives (Republicans) take.
My take is this. I have no problem drilling on ANY American soil, or in ANY American waters, as long as it is done safely.

The Democrats do have a somewhat valid point about protecting the enviornment, I have to agree. BUT, there were several off shore oil riggs that went through Katrina, this nations worst hurricane on record and not ONE DROP of oil was spilled! That sais something. We have come along way since te '70's and it is time to start drilling somwhere. Not to increase the supply to America, but to REPLACE what we import.
If we drill and add 1 million barrols of oil to the market, we need to use it and STOP importing that 1 million barrols!!! If we find 2 then we stop importing 2 and so on......

We don't need to increase the net oil useage because that fuels research on alternatives and we need alternatives. We just need to quite importing oil and break free from these countries that HATE us!
That is my take and I will get off my soap box!!!!! :cool

 

Those hybrids arent even eco friendly. Maybe in their emmisions but making those lithium ion batteries is worse than driving a hummer for three years. Look it up on yahoo or google and you will see what i mean, sorry if that was a bit off topic

 

Limiting production for fear of contaminating the environment is SO misleading. The facts show that Mother Nature is the biggest oil polluter there is! Less than 1% of spilled oil in the seas comes from production sources, while over 60% comes from seepage on the Ocean’s floor alone.

Drilling and extracting the Oil safely is actually better for the environment than doing nothing at all!!

 

You need to understand the logic behind it, no offense. Oil spills by humans have caused a lot of problems for both wildlife and people. Oil seepage was around for millions of years long before humans had any say in it. Regardless of that all but true fact, purdo bay was a mess from the start. Furthermore Exxon mobil got out out of a big settlement just a month or so ago with what had happened in 1989.


My problem is not the extraction of oil but what happens when things go bad. Instead of one of the worlds largest corporations saying "Hey we made and error and we intend to settle it properly." They ended up fighting for almost two decades, showing to many people that they do not truly caring. Oil companies, like shell and BP end up extracting tons of OIL from Nigeria but at the end of the day the people are poisoned for it by having oil seeping into there water. Most oil companies through out the world have shown disregard to happens to the land or water around them during the extraction process. They hand over the land to the government to take care of their problems. The "plug and fill method" is often skipped. After all there is no money in that.

The democrats, while some maybe nut jobs, end up fighting for the honest truth with regards to land management and environmental sustainability. However they are to hard lined and suborn on a lot of other issues.

Erik

 

I've established that no matter what I do, gas prices will be what they want it to be. So I just enjoy my truck while I can afford it. Because who knows, down the road we all might be giving up our trucks.

 

Hey, look on the bright side...less traffic using MY roads!

 

Ya, you guys are all right. Basically we're screwed no matter which way we go. I live in Nebraska, where there's ethanol plants going up just as fast as the corn is growing right now. Ethanol is all the craze right now. And here in NE I can buy a gallon of 89 octane w/10% ethanol, for 10 cents a gallon cheaper than 87 octane w/ no ethanol. E85 is AT LEAST 50 cents a gallon cheaper, depending on how low the station wants to make it.

So for Nebraska ethanol is GREAT!! Hell my mom works at an ethanol plant, my sister used to, and my dad works for an equipment rental company, and most of their equipment is at ethanol plants right now. A couple years back I was working for a dirt moving company doing dirt work for an ethanol plant. Thats my whole family, employed by ethanol!!! Farmers are banking tons of cash because the price of corn is so high.

This is great for us, cheaper gas for us. More jobs, better economy yada yada yada. But what I got to thinking about is how much energy it takes to make a gallon of ethanol. How much diesel does a farmer burn to plant, cultivate, irrigate, apply herbicide and insecticide, harvest, and transport each bushel of corn that goes to the ethanol plant. Then the amount of energy used by these plants is huge too. Huge natural gas burners, coolers, pumps ect. Then the finished product is shipped again to stations.

On the bright side, they're working towards closed loop producion, some plants are building feedlots with the ethanol plants. The methane from the cattle manure is used to heat the boilers instead of natural gas, and the byproduct of ethanol (the lefovers from the corn) is a near perfect cattle feed. So there is hope lol :rockin

What it comes down to for me anyway is just being an american. I'll buy ethanol. Even if what all the politicians say is true... that it costs more to produce then its worth, that it doesn't have the same amount of energy as gasoline does, that cars get worse mileage using it than regular gas and have less power. That it costs states on the coasts millions of dollars, and the have to truck it in from central states just to use it. It all may be true but I'll always use it. WHY? because its made here, the money from it stays here. There's no oil companies that run the plants and take the profits.

If I buy a gallon of gas with ethanol, a small percentage of that cost is going into the pockets of my friends who farm, and my family who work for ethanol. And that money stays in Nebraska, plain and simple. It's about pride. Even if it cost more per gallon to buy it I still would, because thats my way of screwing the oil companies, and it's probably the only way that I can.

One more rant lol. Brazil... They import NO foreign oil. They've been making ethanol from switchgrass (WAY more efficient than corn) for years and years, and now they don't even need foreign oil, cuz they make enough on there own. I hope we can get to that point, and there's not too much politics in the way.

Sorry for the rant, but I hope others feel the same as I do.

 

I would buy ethanol even if its a net loser but overall it makes roughly 1.5 units of energy per 1 unit of energy put into it. So it makes a small gain but the economical gains are priceless since no evil OPEC company gets to see the profits.

Correction, switch grass is a common prairie plant that will hopefully be used in the production of cellulose ethanol. Currently, and for the past 30 years, Brazil produces their ethanol from sugar cane. Hell their lowest fuel grade contains 22% ethanol, 78% gasoline. Ethanol from sugar, broken down into energy units, makes 8 units of energy for every 1 unit of energy put into it. In a nutshell, in order to make alcohol from corn, you have to break the starch down into sugar and then make alcohol from that. With sugar cane you don't have to break anything down, you would just have to convert it into ethanol. This is why, along with how they actually process it, ethanol from sugar is much more sophisticated. Keep in mind Brazil, along with India, China, and Russia is one of those four "up and coming nations". Brazil has the rainforest at their expense in which they can mow it down with out regulation in order to make sugar fields and cattle farms. Furthermore, they have found several oil fields off their countries coast that will produce a significant amount of the worlds overall oil production.

Geopolitical politics in regards to energy is a very unique, intense, and overall will shape the world in which we live in.

 

I am certainly no expert on this issue, but it just pi$$es me off when I hear of how the government is threatening to arrest people using alternative fuels. WTF!!! They are on your a$$ no matter what you do. You can't even help yourself. Tax, tax, tax! Besides, if we kept all the oil we take out of the ground in Alaska and sell to China, we would not have this problem! I guess we do that to pay off our debt. I also have heard that there is enough oil in one well in Texas to supply our entire need for at least 26 years but the government is holding it in reserves. China mines coal at a rate nearly 100 times as much we do and can't keep up with the demand for their own needs and are supplimenting with oil from the US. Bottom line - we are grossly in debt to China and this Country is in the worst condition it has ever been! It is all down hill from here! Hanging on to what you now have will be a major challenge and getting ahead is out of the question, (at least for most of us)!

 

I would have to agree wit your thoughts on ethenol. I watched an hour long presentation on YouTube today by a guy from Golden Fuel Systems today.
He addressed the "true" cost of ethenol. He stated in this video that it takes 3 gallon of gas/diesel to produce 1 gallon of ethanol. If that is the case, it is not such a great deal. But if it is not I wold like to know the REAL TRUTH!!

Here is the video. Long, but there is some GREAT info here. He is pro WVO and somewhat anti biodiesel, but still good.

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hoy50APLi_w

 

I'm watching it right now, but I need to say in the first 2 minutes of the video, this guy is the owner and president of Golden Fuels System, formally Greasel. With that being said, his "bias" attitude towards veggie oils over biodiesel is apparent. When you work for and OWN WVO kit company, your idea of biodiesel as a competitor becomes a rather obvious one. With that being said, I need to hear him out on this video because he does know what he is talking about when it comes waste veggie oil systems. Furthermore, this is the only company I would buy from when it comes to waste veggie oil systems. His company singlehandedly has come up with an actual product and not a "kit" you can buy off the internet.

 

Coal to diesel

We here in Western KY are getting a new plant to make diesel from coal, that may help some and just plant more beans!

 

We her in Western KY are getting a new plant to make diesel from coal, that may help some and just plant more beans!

I hope they get the balls rolling on this, we could use the diesel and the jobs.

 

No Joke, Small World.

 

Not to go to far off topic but coal to diesel fuel is a pretty nasty way of getting diesel fuel. Honestly, the Germans did it during World War II and it is good for so long before supplies become an issue. Fine we have plenty of coal int he country but when you make diesel fuel, natural gas, methanol, etc all from coal plus consider the fact that in addition to all of this we make electricity of out coal. As a whole, if this were to happen on a full scale... I do not see the United States doing for more than a few decades at most. Look on the bright side, at least jobs are created and foreign oil can be put at bay.

Erik

 

I don't remember the name right off hand, but i can find out. It is in Muhlenberg County if that helps you any. Back in the day we were the largest coal producing county in the united states. This was before the epa got strict and decided that there was too much sulfur in western KY coal.

 

There is a lot of surfer in IL and KY coal. It is not favorable because sulfer is a well known carcinogen. With the emerging "clean coal" movement (which is a joke in my eyes when using coal and clean in the same sentence) and gasification plants coming online in the near future this type of coal will become popular again. I would bet everything I own when I say that coal plants will quickly be a thing of the past unless they switch over to gasification plants with the ability to sequester CO2.

Now if algae biodiesel becomes big, you could sequester the CO2 in algae ponds. The true potential of all this technology is very far off but if we push for it, things will start to happen. Now that would be a diesel fuel I could live with rather than some coal based diesel fuel.

Erik

 

i'm posting a topic in this section of the forum regarding my small findings. look it up, i think this thread has been hijacked enough.