Well, I hope someone who sells Amsoil can answer this question. I'm just getting my truck back from an Allison rebuild and want to switch to Amsoil. Hopefully your post will get this questioned answered.....

 

Its a pretty long answer but here is the cliff note version.

The state of CA threatened a law suit against Amsoil if they didn't change the packaging on UATF because the UATF was 6.7 cSt in viscosity and was at the time covering the spec for GM's Dex VI and Mercon SP, LV products. CA said that when they looked at the specs for that fluid the technical data called for a 6.4 cSt viscosity or lower and claimed Amsoil's fluid didn't meet that spec. there fore the packaging was not compliant with CA standards and Amsoil could no longer sell UATF in CA. Even though it was accepted in all other states, Commifornia said no way.....change the label to read that the viscosity in the UATF fluid is lower or don't sell it in CA. Amsoil fought this for a while and plead their case and CA said no. Instead of a huge expensive law suit Amsoil decided to reformulate the UATF and raise the viscosity (which actually makes it a better fluid) and created the new ATL low viscosity fluid to meet the CA law makers request that it match the spec of a lower viscosity fluid.

First of all its splitiing hairs between 6.7 Cst and 6.4 cSt in viscosity but when the new lower viscosity fluid was created they took the GM Dex VI, Mercon SP, LV and Toyota WS spec off UATF and put it on the lower viscosity fluid and raised the viscosity of UATF fluid to 7.0 cSt in viscosity. The higher the viscosity the better a fluid is as far as strength and length of service.

So all that being said.............Amsoil will only recommend what the OEM recommends as far as fluids go. GM owns and licenses the Dex fluids and since they do all the warranty work on the Allison that comes in the GM pick up not Allison they soley recommend the lower viscosity fluids that match the Dex VI spec. That is why Amsoil doesn't recommend Torque Drive anymore. However Allison still recommends TES-295 fluids for extended service intervals. So can Torque Drive be used in the Allison safely? Yes Its still the fluid of choice for the Allison as far as Allison is concerned. Its still the fluid of choice in extreme cold conditions also. Amsoil doesn't recommend it because GM doesn't recommend it and to honor warranties Amsoil has to stay inline with the OEM.

GMC4ME I hope the clears it up a little. The answer to your question is do you have to switch products? If your under warranty and want to adhear to the guidlines of warranty you may want to. Amsoil will still warranty anything that has UATF in it as that was the spec when it was sold as that. Same as Ford changed the spec on its oil in gas motors to 20 weight even though your owners manual says 30 weight if its an older model Ford say late 90's and early 2000's. But if you call them and ask them now they will tell you 20 weight.

 

Amsoil doesn't recommend it because GM doesn't recommend it and to honor warranties Amsoil has to stay inline with the OEM.

I think that is the best explanation, but it is a toss up between those that want to go with the extended drain intervals from Allison, and those that want to use GM Specs. All three fluids will work, and all three are safely compatible with each other and all others as well.

However, that does not mean to say that you also have to use the "Brand" of fluid your Dealer may try to tell you to use. That is just to padd their bottom line. Some Dealers will tell you that you MUST run a certain "Brand" of fluid in the tranny, OR engine, and although if you order an extended warranty from Allison Directly they DO require that you run Transynd and nothing else, the OEM cannot by law void your warranty for not running a certain brand.

 

I had guessed that the answer was something convoluted like that. I went back and looked at the viscosity number for UTF and you are correct about the bump. AMSOIL corporate should post a nice susicent little blurb on this – Dirtbikindad393, you should submit your post to AMSOIL for publication – Thank you.

I am sure TranSynd is a good product but, IMO, the whole TranSynd and TES-295 “thing” has always been more about a strategic relationship agreement between Castrol and Allison to extract revenue from the big fleet operators who purchase extended warranties directly from Allison. Proprietary one vendor specifications are always suspicious.

Looks like I will stick with UTF based upon my set of local conditions. I can see where TorqueDrive would be a better choice if I lived where I had to shovel my driveway.

Now, if only I could find a direct replacement, Setrab quality transmission cooler I will have died and gone to Duramax heaven. Yes, I know that 100 degrees over ambient is normal but it is suppose to reach 103 here today.

Thanks….

 

so is this the best in order from top to bottom?

Torque-Drive™ Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATD)
Synthetic Universal Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF)
Synthetic Low Viscosity Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATL)

 

Its all in what your looking for as to what order I would place them. The highest viscosity fluid you get is going to be the best protector of your trans. If your under warranty and want to go by the letter of the warranty law then that is another order. If you want to extend intervals and use a TES-295 clone fluid thats another order.

Truth of the matter is that all 3 fluids are good fluids for the application. I use Torque Drive because I feel its the best choice for my application.

If you have a truck up to and including 2008 Torque Drive and ATL will be fluids that will meet warranty specs. If you have a 2009 and above the ATL is the only fluid to make warranty specs. If you have no warranty then choose your poisen. I recommend to my customers Torque Drive unless they are the newer 2009 and care about the letter of the warranty law. In that case I recommend the ATL. For anything 2006 and below I recommend Torque Drive period. Above that I inform the customers and give them the options.

 

Not really. As of now, if you live in warmer climates that best choice is the (ATL), Colder Climates the Torque Drive (ATD) and then lastly the (ATF)

 

When i was back in school in march/april they told us at the ALLISON factory training facility that the only fluid that Allison recommended was TES-295 for normal change and only TRANSYND for extended drain intervals. I did a thread on it earlier and basically it was a night and day difference between TRANSYND and Dextron VI(or equivalent) as far a wear on clutch packs at teardown. Just my .02 . How ever the company i work for is an authorized dealer and re-man center and we sell DEX TRANS and a Mobil synthetic. So i guess its up to the owner. We always offer a choice for the light duty (1000-2000s transmissions) but tell them that trans is recommended. THis being said i am by no means an expert on ANY Amsoil product or TRANSYND product and i have nothing to sell so i say go with what sounds like the best for you.

 

I'll throw my opinion in. The whole thing here between Dex III and DEX VI is all about fuel mileage. And yes it of coarse was the state of CA that was probably thinking people were losing MPG due to a couple points in viscosity. I have a 2008 that calls for the DEX VI product and I currently run AMSOIL ATF witch is a DEX III product. Am I going to run the AMSOIL ATL Dex VI product, NO. Actually I am thinking of switching to Torque-Drive before plowing season gets here. I

I had the same conversation with AMSOIL Tech services as you did. The only difference I am a dealer and they told me a bit more. But they did tell me what Big Daddy said they will only recommend what the OEM calls for, in this case ATL or DEX VI. You are fine to use any of the 3 products you chose.

 

Question what exactly is the difference between dex III and dex VI viscosity VI being lower?

 

Why does California have to file lawsuits against everybody. That state really needs to fall of the face of the earth. Seriously. Im not a fan of it. They need to take their cows with them too so the milk price goes back up (nothing against cali dairy farmers, im friends with half of them which is about 10)

Personally i run whats cheap. We have a 55 gallon drum of cheapo Dex III and thats what i run.

For trnny builds i do its whateever the customer brings me. Usually I just send them to the allison shop to get a 5 gallon pail of good stuff. The one tranny i did ran Transynd. But this one im doing now, the allison shop gave him Mobil 1 synth, reccomended by allison it says.

 

Yeah go figure Calif thinks its a country and and can make its own rules as if it were its own country. Thats why some here call it commifornia. If our jobs (wife & I) didn't tie us to Calif we would certainly be in another state.

 

Yes, I have "Heard" that Allison is now changing Their tune as well by now recommending the Mobile 1 product over the Transynd. HOWEVER, I have seen NOTHING firm about this. Personally I truly believe that the main reason that Allison pushed Transynd so much is because they had a business relationship with Castrol to recommend their product over another. I think they do the same as the OEM with what they recommend, whatever is more cost effective and makes them more on their bottom line profit margin.

 

I have a 2005 HD duramax Allison tranny 77,;000 miles

Did a amsoil change @ 23,000 & 65,000 miles

30,000 of these miles are tow miles

Tranny went out @ 77k


Can anyone explain to me why I half to pay out $6k for a new tranny with this kind of care & mileage??

 

I would say if you have/had some kind of defective part(s) in your tranny, the best fluid in the world won't save it. I don't imagine your problem was fluid related.

 

I did the amsoil 295 change back in jan when I got my truck, and have put rite about 90k on since with no tranny issues what so ever towing 99 percent of the time. know on wood....

 

So I run torque drive in my 06 LBZ 6 Speed Allison, Been running it since 150K and now have 230K. I tow a lot and I tow heavy, in the summer my trans temps have bounced off of 250* multiple times while towing. I change my fluid and filter every 25K.

What is recommended for that? I will likely end up with an Inglewood trans sooner than later but until I get another truck I cant afford down time at the moment.

 

Clean the cooling stack?

Not familiar with TD, claims same formulation as TranSynd, which is 100k change intervals....why are you changing at 25k?

 

I change at 25K because of how often I over heat it. I also limp my trans on occasion towing so I figure I'm getting so clutch material and burned fluid in the trans. I bought 10 gal of fluid a while back when I started running it so I have plenty to use.

I clean the cooling stack once or twice a year. The reason for the heat is grossing 36,500 w/ a tall/wide tractor in +100* Oklahoma heat pulling rolling hills.

Is there a better fluid that will hold up to the heat?

 

85k miles on my trans and no problems! The truck is basically only used to tow heavy. Back at about 3k miles, I dumped in 8 quarts of "Mobil 1 Synthetic ATF". 1 month later I did this again and changed the spin on filter. At about 70k miles, I did 8 quarts again, and a new spin on filter. My next 8 quarts and filter will be at 110k miles or thereabouts. Mobil 1 oil has been around as far as I know, since the early 1970's. Thats a lot of research and development time. I use Mobil 1 synthetic products for just about everything. They don't cost an arm and a leg, and they are easy to find. Set yourself up with a good oil change schedule, and your truck will last you a long time.

 

ive heard of concerns about seal leakage in the older allisons when switching to dex VI. i have a 2002 and run torque drive

 

Torque Drive is based on the Dex III formula so it is good for the 2001-2005 years before they switched to the Dex VI. It is seal compatible with all years so even if you are changing Dex VI there is no worry.