[N2BRK]

Ok, I have a tip to share

Today I crawled under and lubed the front end. I noticed that although Rare put a 90* fitting on there, it doesn't make it any easier to lube. In fact , you have to pull the belly pan to get it.

I think the answer is to pull it out. Use the plug from the other side to cap it off, and then install a straight fitting. I took some crappy pics, but shiws how muh room is available on that side compared to Rare's location.

 

[N2BRK]

Even a 45 would help. But switching sides and going straight FTW, IMHO

 

[Dmaxguy]

I cant wait till next weekend
parts should be getting here this friday

 

[Dmaxguy]

where did you order the pitman arm from? ive been trying to get the two washers from rare parts and they have been no help.

 

[N2BRK]

I bought it via internet order from Performancelifts.com They sent me a 5% off coupon code and when I called and griped about the shipping being WAY off on the website, they shot me free shipping. All told it was $104.45 -- good people there. It was sent drop-ship from Rare.

I emailed/called Tech support at Rare and Glen was a ton of help. He's the one that turned me on to the washer and shim. He did send them to me, (free), but I wouldn't assume that he'd do that again or make a habit of that; again great help/service!

Wally

 

[N2BRK]

almost forgot to add... after doing this, I honest feel that you are better off without the Cognito addition! My truck has never steered so well, and I have better full-lock manners in the parking lot. I've only done a few boosted launches, but I don't see a difference without the Cognito brace on the pitman. Glen also opined that it isn't needed with their new arm.

Try it without the brace. If you think you need more, then pursue the hardware... but I think you won't want to run it after you try it bareback, lol.

 

[Dmaxguy]

almost forgot to add... after doing this, I honest feel that you are better off without the Cognito addition! My truck has never steered so well, and I have better full-lock manners in the parking lot. I've only done a few boosted launches, but I don't see a difference without the Cognito brace on the pitman. Glen also opined that it isn't needed with their new arm.

Try it without the brace. If you think you need more, then pursue the hardware... but I think you won't want to run it after you try it bareback, lol.

the only reason im really pursuing spacer for the brace is for the long run. i know running these bigger tires it puts more stress on the steering components.

 

[N2BRK]

IMHO the idler is where you want to build most of your strength

 

[Dmaxguy]

IMHO the idler is where you want to build most of your strength

so i should have gone with a heavy duty assembley over the pisk then

 

[N2BRK]

there's a lot of ways to go and a lot of bandaids. Whatever combination that works for you is just fine

 

[N2BRK]

Time to come back and update this. I've learned a ton since this thread; none of it is favorable for Rare.

This setup worked well on my stock turbo'd truck. Once I bumped the power it failed on the first attempt at a 4wd launch. Not even a boosted launch. I went easy first try.

It took a long time to finally figured out wtf really happened. Here goes... The Rare arm's pin is free floating. No other pitman to my knowledge does this. So all of the force of centerlink roll became the job of my idler. My Ultimate Idler bent it's massive pin! No other damage though.

I tried to talk to Glenn at Rare, and at first he was interested in r/d and understanding what happened. But it soon became obvious that was BS.

Before I really knew what directly caused my damage, I threw more parts at the front end lol. I added the DHD brace and DHD lower control arm bracket. It seems to do great now. I also pulled the bars and did caltracs. Now she keeps the nose down and just goes!

Glen tried to tell me that their idler arm pin wouldn't have bent. When I asked them to explain how thier smaller pin made from inferior metal would outperform my Ultimate Idler, I got silence. (Mine is 4150 chromoly and theirs is 4140.).

AlSo according to glen the pitman pin has to move freely or it will shear off, lol. I guess OEM, Moog, PPE, etc all missed that memo.

I'd love to hear if anyone has found a good alternative? I thought about PPE but there's a few negatives there. Moog seemed pretty good!

 

[chrisuns]

The plastic bushing in most pitman arms provides the small amount of movement needed to allow flex between the pitman and idler - so he wasn't blowing smoke there, the pitman or idler pin will shear if they were both made rigid from chassis flex.

I have the exact same setup (ultimate idler and rare parts pitman); however, I have poly bushings and a cognito centerlink and tie-rod kit and run in auto4wd all the time. No issues, but I don't do boosted launches or race much - I'm around 1000ft lbs or so.

Moog HD would probably be your best bet though. It may wear quicker than the rare parts, but it'll also provide some resistance from the centerlink rolling. IIRC they use a metal bushing in theirs too.

The shearing issue I'm sure is one of the reasons the PPE arms are drilled out to accept a much larger stud. I haven't seen documentation on exactly how they build those though. I'd bet you'd damage a part with PPE if they're both rigid and you were to off-road with a rigid centerlink like mine, because all that bigger pins is going to do is reintroduce that chassis flex force into the steering box, idler support and centerlink.

 

[N2BRK]

The plastic bushing in most pitman arms provides the small amount of movement needed to allow flex between the pitman and idler - so he wasn't blowing smoke there, the pitman or idler pin will shear if they were both made rigid from chassis flex.

a little wiggle to prevent binding is different than a fully pivoting "barber's chair"

I have the exact same setup (ultimate idler and rare parts pitman); however, I have poly bushings and a cognito centerlink and tie-rod kit and run in auto4wd all the time. No issues, but I don't do boosted launches or race much - I'm around 1000ft lbs or so.

i have the Kryptonite centerlink and tie rods. The design reduced some of the stress on the arms compared to stock. When I was only on a max effort built trans, I had no issue. It was when I stepped up to the 68mm stg2r

Moog HD would probably be your best bet though. It may wear quicker than the rare parts, but it'll also provide some resistance from the centerlink rolling. IIRC they use a metal bushing in theirs too.
i went to the DHD brackets and it's launching straight as a grizzly' sick

The shearing issue I'm sure is one of the reasons the PPE arms are drilled out to accept a much larger stud. I haven't seen documentation on exactly how they build those though. I'd bet you'd damage a part with PPE if they're both rigid and you were to off-road with a rigid centerlink like mine, because all that bigger pins is going to do is reintroduce that chassis flex force into the steering box, idler support and centerlink.

im thinking the pitman arm itself would be the next flex area in that scenario? As for the PPE, I have avoided buying it because they modify a stock arm. I'd consider it if they had their own (stronger) arm and did their own broaching of the splines

 

[chrisuns]

Yeah, my guess is they went with the ball-stud to prevent bind and wearing of the internal bushing; therefore allowing the pitman arm to last longer. They probably figured the reverse pin in their idler arm will be satisfactory for most "stock" applications to prevent centerlink roll.

I think the bigger issue is they need to market it as-such: if you install the rareparts pitman arm with anything other than a ultimate, kryptonite or their own idler arm. You'll take out the stock ac delco or moog, etc., idler in a VERY short order.

I personally have no complaints though, as my steering is about 99% perfect, the only killer is the general recirculating ball issue: the dead spot of 2-5mm. Not like our Tahoe where I move it .5mm and it reacts, but that is rack & pinion and apples to oranges comparison.

 

[chrisuns]

The be honest, I think it'd take out the idler mount or bearing/bushing first. That or maybe the steering box bushing; most pitman arms I've seen are fairly thick pieces of metal to flex much.

That or who know, the rotational force of the crank might not be enough to yield any of the components? Hard to say really, especially without modeling everything.

 

[N2BRK]

Dunno. I welded in that massive Kryptonite idler bracket and I run the Henderson idler. I'm thinking it's got to destroy something on the pitman side first.

They do think that their reverse pin is the cats ass. He tried telling me that he was happy to see the failure because it meant that their idler must be stronger because it doesn't allow the rolling of the centerlink due to the reverse pin design. I laughed my ass off at that one. Then he furthered how it must be true because they have 1000hp drag trucks that aren't bending them. My question about WTF a properly setup drag truck has to do with an 8000lb truck with longbars, fabfours bumpers, a 12000lb front winch, and the torsion bars a c-hair off the snubbers, that likes to throw the front end up high and bend parts... Went totally unanswered. Lol although it was funny when I was offered to send them my "inferior" idler in exchange for theirs. Haha. Thanks, no.

 

[Fireman541]

Following, I've sheared off 3 Moog pitman arm bolts and 2 upper control arm ball joint bolts. Currently replacing the entire lift with a 7"-9" Cognito. Not sure what type of lift was on the truck, it was lifted when I bought it. I talked to the guys at Cognito and sent them pictures because at the time I snapped off the upper control arm ball joints, I had recently replaced them with Cognito tubular upper control arms. They said the geometry of the lift was off because I was using their UCA's with a different lift. Should have the Cognito lift finished this week. Hoping for this to be the end of my steering issues.

I was thinking about upgrading the centerlink with the Moog pitman and idler arms and removing the Cognito stabilizers.

Anyone ever used a Red-Head Steering Gear Box to replace their OEM gear box? Looking at replacing my factory one. It's been on there for over 200,000 miles and looking to upgrade to something a little more beefy since I upgraded the lift to a 7"-9" Cognito and 37" tires. Current gearbox is leaking a little.

 

[Daniel e]

Time to come back and update this. I've learned a ton since this thread; none of it is favorable for Rare.

This setup worked well on my stock turbo'd truck. Once I bumped the power it failed on the first attempt at a 4wd launch. Not even a boosted launch. I went easy first try.

It took a long time to finally figured out wtf really happened. Here goes... The Rare arm's pin is free floating. No other pitman to my knowledge does this. So all of the force of centerlink roll became the job of my idler. My Ultimate Idler bent it's massive pin! No other damage though.

I tried to talk to Glenn at Rare, and at first he was interested in r/d and understanding what happened. But it soon became obvious that was BS.

Before I really knew what directly caused my damage, I threw more parts at the front end lol. I added the DHD brace and DHD lower control arm bracket. It seems to do great now. I also pulled the bars and did caltracs. Now she keeps the nose down and just goes!

Glen tried to tell me that their idler arm pin wouldn't have bent. When I asked them to explain how thier smaller pin made from inferior metal would outperform my Ultimate Idler, I got silence. (Mine is 4150 chromoly and theirs is 4140.).

AlSo according to glen the pitman pin has to move freely or it will shear off, lol. I guess OEM, Moog, PPE, etc all missed that memo.

I'd love to hear if anyone has found a good alternative? I thought about PPE but there's a few negatives there. Moog seemed pretty good!

Yeah, I have a similar experience with rare parts, Pittman arm…
I also got their idler arm and idler arm bracket. I don’t like any of them and already took the idler stuff off. expensive mistakes to put these on your Chevrolet express. I will get to the Pittman arm soon. It’s a pita to remove so I didn’t do it yet. It’s crazy how the Pitman arm on the rare parts one pivots the way it does and no other ones pivot.